|
Post by mirageiiic on Apr 16, 2023 18:04:32 GMT
Hello all! With the release of the fixed DC-8 V6.1, I became aware there was an aileron animation issue. Mysteriously enough, the ailerons on my V6.0 DC-8s actually are animated and work properly! (all the control surfaces move properly). I tested various models and they all work for me (-20, -20F, -30, -30F, -40, -62). I don't have anything special installed on FS, other than a registered version of FSUIPC. Sorry to add more to the mystery Unfortunately, what I also discovered in my V6.0s, specifically all models -10 through -40 series, is that the engine fan animations have a problem. The output of #1 engine animates engines #1 and #2 on the visual model. Engine #2 animates engine #3. Engine #3 animates #4. Engine #4's output does not animate any of the 4 engines fans. I wanted to check if anybody else is having this issue. The V6.0s models -50 and up all have engine animations that work properly for me.
|
|
|
Post by adjetsdes8911 on Apr 16, 2023 20:14:29 GMT
I just tried the Douglas DC-8 in which I had mentioned. I didn't see any abnormalities in their engines, I tried the Douglas DC-8-50 model. I didn't see errors. I saw it well.
|
|
|
Post by mirageiiic on Apr 17, 2023 0:58:01 GMT
Hi Marc, Thank you for taking the time to reply. I apologize for a mistake in my posting above, I took a closer look and indeed the model files I'm using are the v6.1 release from December 20th (I made the mistake to look at the aircraft.cfg files, in which the text comment still state V6.0, but looking inside the model folder I confirmed the models are the V6.1 release).
Regarding the engine fan blades animation issue, I apologize for my clumsy explanation. The engine animation issue I'm experiencing affects only my Series 10 through 40. I'm using the latest HJG panels and have not modified anything. The manual engine start up works just fine, but what will happen is this:
When starting engine 3, if you look at the plane from the outside view, you will see the fan blades on engine 4 turning, not engine 3 (inside the cockpit everything is fine, the engine gauges for the #3 engine will begin making their indications). As the engine starts, the exhaust smoke will come from engine 3 on light-off, but #4's fan blades are the ones being animated.
Starting engine 2 will make the fan blades on engine 3 start turning.
Starting engine 1 will animate the fan blades on both engines 1 and 2.
It's possible the issue is one local to my FS install, if nobody else is experiencing this.
Thanks again for your attention, and I apologize for my earlier mix-up.
|
|
|
Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 17, 2023 2:31:13 GMT
If you installed the December 20th 2022 supplied fixed V6.1 models into the December 9th 2022 supplied V6.0 base packs then the CFG headers for these base packs will still all read "V6.0" The CFG headers for for each of the April 10th 2023 released V6.1 aircraft base packs (which contain the same fixed V6.1 models) each read "V6.1". Despite different version numbers (in accordance with the corresponding model files) there's "absolutely no difference" between the CFG/FDE data accompanying either. You do need to be sure your CFG files all read either "V6.0" (manually edit these to read V6.1) or "V6.1" (no edit being required in the latter case). Don't use any CFG's dated earlier than these. Use the following-linked aircraft base packs only which contain fixed models released between late December 2022 and April 2023 ...."HJG NEW/UPGRADED FILES RELEASES - APRIL 2023" (again see installment #7)tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thread/10284/upgraded-files-releases-april-2023I'll have a closer look as soon as I can find time to do so. Mark C AKL/NZ
|
|
|
Post by mirageiiic on Apr 17, 2023 4:49:41 GMT
Mark, Thank you for your detailed reply and for taking the time to test to see if my problem could be reproduced. I do have the modified V6.1 model files and verified this by going to the individual model folders and checking the file names and modified dates. Ailerons work perfectly.
I do follow the manual start procedure per the instructions, and everything works perfectly except for the animation of the fan disks. But thank you for verifying that everything works properly on the 6.1 release, I'll troubleshoot my own installation and see if I can figure out what my issue is.
Thanks again for your time and help Mark!
Best regards, Fernando
|
|
|
Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Apr 17, 2023 9:30:08 GMT
Hi Mark, sorry haven’t been available much as I’m recovering from major surgery. I will try and have a look at this in FSX on Win10 tomorrow.
Cheers, Nathan 🙂
|
|
|
Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 17, 2023 13:45:58 GMT
Dunno what FS and WIN versions he's using since neither have been declared. Shouldn't make any difference though. Just remember .... the engine disk rotation animation, behind the static grills inside each nacelle, should commence "BEFORE" the engine startup sounds become audible. This simulates the engine/s being ground air assisted/spun-up to light-up RPM. We're living in an aviation age now where (I think) many people don't appreciate the engines on B707/720, CV880/CV990/and DC-8 aircraft required massive volumes of ground generated compressed air in order to spin each engine up to start-up RPM, and at which point fuel was then introduced for ignition/light-up, in order to continue spooling each engine up to idle running speed. This's what functionality of engine disk animation within the HJG DC-8 simulations is intended replicate .... as I've been trying to explain above This animation is "timed" in accordance with how panel based startup procedure should be used .... MEANING .... as engine #1 (in the case of the FS auto-start procedure) is well advanced in its spool up towards ignition/light-up RPM, the engine #2 disk animation should already have commenced .... then same "in-turn" in regard to engines #3 and #4 as well. There should be no visible variation/s in the description of this animation regardless of FS or WIN OS version. If any such variation is evident then we won't be able to do anything about it .... simply because we can't re-write the prescribed procedure/s for these simulations in order to satisfy different FS/WIN OS versions nor re-invent the models and their associated animations either. Mark C AKL/NZ
|
|
|
Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 18, 2023 1:46:14 GMT
"MIRAGEIIIC" .... been further looking into what you reported. Seems there "IS" a minor difference in regard to the fan disk animations when using the default M$ engine auto-start procedures as opposed to using our own (HJG recommended) panel customized manual engine startup procedure. Seems the fan disks can animate prematurely using the default FS auto-start procedure .... BUT .... this "DOES NOT" happen using our own panel based/customized manual engine startup procedure (and which is the only option I ever use) . Can't really answer this .... other than to say the default MS FS aut0-startprocedure is obviously managing to imposing its will over the DC-8-10 through 40 model engine disk animations (per timing) but not in regard to any of the other DC-8 models. Surprises me really. I'll have to direct this inquiry to someone else for a deeper technical analysis. For the greater part everything remains precisely as I earlier communicated, but, sorry if I misunderstood you previously .... it's sometimes hard to analyze things clearly when the world around one is evolving at velocities well in excess of MACH 2.00. Property/Real Estate negotiation does tend to impose that sort of impact Mark C AKL/NZ
|
|
|
Post by mirageiiic on Apr 18, 2023 7:35:46 GMT
Hi Mark, Sorry, I forgot to say I'm using FS2004 under Windows 7. No worries, it really is a puzzling problem because I don't see a reason why the animation should work any different for me. I have always used the 'manual' start procedure rather than the automatic FS start procedure (I'm very familiar with the HJG procedure on the DC-8s as I've been using it for many years The engine spool-up does take place in a difference fashion with the HJG DC-8 panel (as compared to a default 747, for example), fan rotation doesn't begin until fuel is introduced. The fan disc animation issue I'm seeing is not limited to the start procedure; if I have all 4 engines running and I shut down engine 1, the fan discs for both engine 1 and 2 will spool down and stop. It's truly puzzling behavior as I see no obvious reason for it; it's not driven by using an incorrect panel as that has no effect on animation, that's why I assumed it could be an issue with the model itself. I do appreciate your time and effort in addressing my question. I will report if I figure out something, at least I'll try deleting one of the models and reinstalling it. In any case this does not affect the usability of the planes. At this point I'm curious more than anything! Thanks again for your help!
|
|
|
Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 18, 2023 9:09:57 GMT
As I mentioned .... I obviously earlier misinterpreted your initial query "MIRAGEIIIC" .... talking with my expert this evening we may (possibly) have a solution. No guarantees as yet as it still needs to be tested .... and then further tested to ensure the applied fix hasn't broken something else and which can sometimes happen. I'm evaluating prospective properties/real estate at the moment, so, it'll likely be a day or so before I can test this prospective solution, If this solution resolves the said minor fan disk animation issue then it'll likely be several days more before I'm able to offer anything to anyone .... just see how we go Mark C AKL/NZ
|
|
|
Post by mirageiiic on Apr 18, 2023 23:14:30 GMT
As I mentioned .... I obviously earlier misinterpreted your initial query "MIRAGEIIIC" .... talking with my expert this evening we may (possibly) have a solution. No guarantees as yet as it still needs to be tested .... and then further tested to ensure the applied fix hasn't broken something else and which can sometimes happen. I'm evaluating prospective properties/real estate at the moment, so, it'll likely be a day or so before I can test this prospective solution, If this solution resolves the said minor fan disk animation issue then it'll likely be several days more before I'm able to offer anything to anyone .... just see how we go Mark C AKL/NZ No worries Mark, take care of what you must first. The DC-8 will keep flying in the meantime These latest upgrades of the engines and sounds are superb.
|
|
|
Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Apr 19, 2023 1:17:18 GMT
Hi Mark and Mirageiiic.
I can confirm that this is also the situation in FSX/FSX-SE on Win10. When doing a manual start using the air cart simulation I get the following.
Engine 3 start animates Engine 4 fan. Engine 4 animates engine 1 Engine 1 animated engine 2 Engine 2 animated engine 3
It should also be noted that starter smoke during the engine start does come out of the correct engine. It’s almost like the fan animations have been put into the wrong locations.
Also, when closing down the engines by setting the fuel cutoff leavers to fuel off, with the ignitions off and starters off, in FSX-FSX-SE the engines only shutdown to 22% N2 then they try to restart 🤷🏻♂️. They don’t restart, but they hang @ 22% and the audio plays the starting loop that is played during start when the simulation is waiting for the fuel cutoff levers to be to be set to fuel on. The only way to get the engines to shutdown is to turn the batteries to off. If you then turn the batteries back on, the engines try to start up again.
Cheers, Nathan
|
|
|
Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 19, 2023 4:21:11 GMT
After my (finally) having yesterday spotted what "MIRAGEIIIC" was trying to communicate (never a good idea "for me" to look at FS matters whilst also conducting R/W business .... it's a distraction and one that usually adversely influences my FS analysis) I eventually/belatedly witnessed the DC-8-10 through -40 issue too.
Haven't observed any engine startup vapor/steam related issues though .... but again .... I've been distracted lately in regard to "greater priorities". Incidentally that startup vapor/steam should come out of "the sides of each engine" and become visible at/around the point of startup ignition and not out the arse ends/tail pipes.
That's been a "KNOWN" minor issue since around 2006 and one we've never been able to resolve. I've never entered it into the DC-8 "KNOWN ISSUES" list simply because 99% of people use the Fuel Levers to shutdown the engines .... as prescribed within the manual. Believe this minor issue's panel/gauge related. Only occurs though when selecting CTRL+SHIFT+F1 to shutdown the engines .... AND .... it also only occurs "after" the engines have been running for a while. When these simulations first load into FS .... and if CTRL+SHIFT+F1 is then/immediately selected .... the engines "DO" all shutdown perfectly. The engine startup looping could be prompted by the equivalent of an Engine Relight or Continuous Ignition switch remaining "ON" .... or .... either of the engine startup system switches not being selected "OFF" after startup and which could (possibly) then prevent engine shutdown. This affects all of the DC-8 simulations and not just the -10 through -40 SERIES.
The prescribed engine shutdown procedure is .... (1) command the CP/Power Quadrant sub panel into view .... and (2) manually select each of the Fuel Levers "OFF" .... and engine shutdown is then "faultless" in response to these prescribed actions. In reality the "BATTERY SWITCH" would be set to its "EXTERNAL POWER" position prior to engine shutdown (to ensure continuous energy supply after shutdown), but, there's no point in doing so as these panels/simulations have (since 2000) never been programmed "to this particular extent" .... except in regard to the essential manual engine startup procedure/s.
In regard to "MIRAGEIIIC's" reported issue. I do now have a revised model ("NOT" related yet). First indications suggest the reported issue may now be resolved .... BUT .... I need more time within which to properly analyze this.
Mark C AKL/NZ
|
|
|
Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Apr 19, 2023 8:20:55 GMT
Thanks so much Mark, I wasn’t sure if it was just my installation as I usually use FS9 with the Diesel 8 and haven’t come across it until recently. ☺️
I find that the engine shutdown procedure works perfectly in FS9 but not FSX. I don’t use Ctrl+shift+F1 but use the fuel levers to off as I try to replicate real world ops as much as possible. The plane just feels happier in FS9 hence why I only really use it in that fabulous sim, but if I do use it in FSX, I end up setting the battery to off. No biggie as the best part of the flight is already over 😝
|
|
|
Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 30, 2023 21:28:41 GMT
"MIRAGE111C" .... Haven't forgotten you Believe we now have a/the fix to offer .... plus a couple of other observations to communicate also. Could be a little while before I can release the fixes though. "EXTREMELY BUSY" at the moment in regard to finalizing property negotiations and conveyancing. I'll attend to things "as I can" Mark C AKL/NZ
|
|