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Post by trevors on Aug 10, 2014 18:38:58 GMT
Hi
I've just discovered the L1011 updated panel. Great job. Thanks to those involved. Regarding the IAS/Mach function - a question to the gauge programer.
Is it possible to "tighten" this function somewhat ?
I find that the VS moves up and down through about 500-600 feet per minute to hold the indicated speed. (The vertical speed response seems too slow and the adjustments too great) Could this not be reduced to a movement of about 200feet per minute up/down to hold IAS ?
Regards Trevor
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Aug 10, 2014 21:28:48 GMT
I'm "NOT" the gauge programmer .... BUT ....
At what airspeed were you when AP IAS mode was engaged ?
At what altitude were you also ?
AND .... Did you attempt to adjust the airspeed "whilst AP IAS mode was engaged" ?
AP IAS mode doesn't/won't result in a perfectly smooth climb/descent (for that one is best advised to use AP VS mode). It's normal for it to drift .... "a little" .... BUT .... a number of factors could also account for what, you say, you're experincing.
Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by trevors on Aug 11, 2014 15:06:50 GMT
I hear what you're saying, but the movement of 600 feet/minute is too excessive. Did George do the programming? If so, I'd like to hear from him
Regards Trevor
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Post by George Carty - HJG on Aug 11, 2014 17:53:28 GMT
I copied the code over from the HJG DC-8 panel series – maybe it needs adjusting for the heavier L-1011?
George
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Post by trevors on Aug 11, 2014 19:43:30 GMT
I copied the code over from the HJG DC-8 panel series – maybe it needs adjusting for the heavier L-1011? George That would be great if you could do that please George. Thanks Regards Trevor
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Aug 13, 2014 0:47:15 GMT
I'm not responding to anyone in particular .... since this's just a "general report/analysis" of the situation As I mentioned above .... The AP-IAS pitch mode is one I seldom, if ever, use whenever flying either the HJG DC8's or L1011's. "NO REASON" .... other than the fact I just prefer using the AP-VS pitch mode I've had a quick look at this particular L1011 AP-IAS pitch mode report this morning .... since I (unusually) had a bit of time up my sleeve and can report as follows .... The L1011 simulations "DO" demonstrate a tendancy to pitch up and down .... v---e---r---y .... s---l---o---w---l---y .... when the AP-IAS pitch mode is engaged in accordance with a preselected airspeed value .... HOWEVER .... this tendancy appears, from what I've noted today, to also be extremly minor. I tried to time the range of each oscillation .... from its stable/the lowest point of its trough to the apex/peak of any VSI indicated gain .... and noted this (in my particular case at least) to be well in excess of a minute .... or so between the said ranges .... and that it "does" also appear to continue throughout the climb toward cruising altitude .... as the AP constantly adjusts the pitch attitude (usually always down), with altitude gain, and in order to try'n maintain the preselected airspeed throughout its progress toward any preselected target cruising altitude. The extent of this particular trend may vary among the HJG supplied L1011 simulations though .... for the simple reason that most represent different aircraft weights with some also representing different engine thrust ratings also .... and which will, possibly, influence this tendancy a little more, or less, noticerably among the different L1011 simulations. Again/Just to re-cap .... there "IS" a constant, but very minor, tendancy for each L1011 simulation to pitch, very mildly, in increments of around 500-600 FPM .... as has been reported by "TREVORS". This trend is only really visible per VSI gauge indication/s on the MP. In external FS viewing mode this trend appears to be "almost" undetectable though. PLEASE NOTE: I'm "NOT" saying that nothing's wrong .... or that things can't be improved upon. I'm "SIMPLY" following through with, and reporting in regard to, what's already been reported here .... as I generally alweays do in response to any such query/report.As I recall .... the DC8's also tend to demonstrate similar performances when the AP-IAS pitch mode is engaged too. "IF" .... the L1011 AP-IAS pitch mode data has been imported from the DC8 to the L1011 simulations (as George suggests) .... then .... I think it, possibly, also needs being born-in-mind that the type AP pitch mode/s, as compiled into the HJG DC8 simulations, was intended to represent the state of technology from around the late 1950's/early 1960's (as I recall) .... which was a perid during which this sorts of technology was in its infancy, and probably, not as reliable as that later developed and incorporated into aicraft like the A300B, B747, DC10, and L1011 by the late 1960's/early 1970's. All I'm really trying to say here is .... the performance built into the DC8 simulations was "intended" to try'n reflect the capability of techanolgy from that particular period .... "IN SO FAR AS THIS IS PRACTICEABLE WITHIN THE BOUNDERIES OF SOME FS IMPOSED LIMITATIONS" George .... I've communicated another unrelated L1011 observation to you .... per PM Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by trevors on Oct 12, 2014 9:01:31 GMT
Any progress on this one, gentlemen?
Regards Trevor
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 12, 2014 13:03:39 GMT
Not yet Trevor .... since our energies are, currently, focussed on other new projects .... which must, for the time being, take precedence.
Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by trevors on Oct 13, 2014 14:27:01 GMT
Okie dokes.
Trevor
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Post by walterleo on Oct 13, 2014 21:20:13 GMT
Hi:
Real pilots have a saying: The AP is the pilot´s best friend. BUT: Be kind to him he will be kind to you: Hand the airplane over to him in a stable flight condition and he will hand it over to you also in a stable flight condition. If you press IAS hold when no stable flight condition already exists, the AP needs time to iron out what you have thrown on his feets....
Walter
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 13, 2014 21:57:36 GMT
There´s definitely a "very minor" issue there though Walter .... when employing IAS mode during AP controlled climb (in particular), but, it´s one of those things that´ll have to await "our convenience" .... whenever.
Everything´s fine though whenever the AP-VS mode is employed.
Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by walterleo on Oct 14, 2014 8:28:50 GMT
Hi Trevor Hi Mark:
Tried it on the Tristar 250: IAS AP engaged AT DISENGAGED: One can change even throttle settings without upheavels AS LONG AS YOU MOVE SLOWLY THE THROTTLES, when you push the throttles forward from IDLE in one brisk movement at IAS hold and a descent of 3000 ft/min on 300 kts, then overspeed occures. I did not see a wobbling up and down in pitch or climb/descent rates at least at the 300 kts I tried. Maybe if you wander to the lower edges of the flight-envelop the AP will be not so smooth.
Kind regards
Walter
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 14, 2014 14:02:17 GMT
"SPEED" will/should help smooth things out (in fact on those very rare occasions I´ve ever used the AP-IAS mode when flying the L1011´s .... and DC8´s .... I´ve generally always ensured it´s only enganged at over 300 KTS and above 10,000 FT .... and which is why I queried both "AIRSPEED" and "ALTITUDE" within my very first response to this particular thread), but, it may not resolve this "very minor issue/tendancy" completely .... pòssibly due to the way in which FS works the AP-IAS modes through constant adjustment of the ROC in conjunction with altitude as the system endeavours to maintain the selected/targeted IAS or MACH airspeed value, so, there does, perhaps, need to be a little "tolerance" here/with this If I understand "TREVOR" correctly .... the experience he reports is more acutely, or is only, associated with climb performance. Once again I can, and do, confirm the follwing .... - there "IS" a constant, but very minor, tendancy for each L1011 simulation to pitch, very mildly, in increments of around 500-600 FPM in repetitive cycles over more than a minute or so. - This very mild trend is really only visible per the VSI gauge indications on the main panel. - In external FS viewing mode this very mild trend appears to be "almost" undetectable. - it´s not a wild or rapid oscillation .... and doesn´t occur, at all, during cruise, and once the AP-IAS climb/descend mode auto-disengages in order to engage the simulations AP-ALT HLD mode .... and .... nor does it occur "at all" either when the AP VS climb/descend mode (my own prference) is engaged. Unless George feels he wants to prioritize this .... then .... this´s probably something that´ll need to be deferred until a couple of our new projects are right out of the way. Mark
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Post by walterleo on Oct 14, 2014 20:26:26 GMT
In conclusion: I wanted to say the behaviour of the Tristar AP is within the FS9 limitation goooood. As we dont have fat cats as PAXES with us who will complain if they detect undue movments of their Lagavulin in their glasses you are well adviced not changing your priority. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagavulin_distilleryKind regards Walter
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 14, 2014 21:17:22 GMT
There are times .... and posts/threads .... around here when we could all do with a bit of LAGAVULIN (or other preference), so, come on over some time Walter, and bring the bottle and some glasses with you .... along with a bit of ice as well Mark C BOG/CO
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