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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on May 24, 2015 12:56:02 GMT
Last Wednesday, May 20, we had the privilege of watching our last Coast Guard cadet, Courtney, graduate. We've been a sponsor family for 10 years. As is the tradition, the President speaks at the graduation of one of the service academies every year and this year it was the USCGA. About an hour after the ceremony we were walking back to our car and my daughter noted a very low flying airliner and asked if that was the president's plane. It was a 757. I wondered how a 757 could land at Groton-New London airport. Well, a friend of ours is a state trooper who happened to be assigned to the presidential motorcade. I saw him yesterday and he showed me pictures of the 757, decked out in Air Force One livery, parked on the ramp at KGON. He said the plane came from Westchester (KHPN) and then flew back to there. There were about 40 people on board in the entourage. Here's your assignment, should you decide to accept it (for all of you who remember Mission Impossible) Fly a 757 appropriately loaded, from KHPN, land at KGON, and then return to KHPN. For those not familiar with the Groton-New London airport, the main runway 5/23 is 5000ftx150 ft with an ILS on 5. The cross runway is 15/33 4000x150 VFR only. The archived METAR for that day/time is KGON 201756Z 31016G21KT 10SM CLR 18/04 A2980 Have fun!! Mike
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Post by christrott on May 24, 2015 23:19:28 GMT
Well, as long as they were under 207,000 pounds Gross Weight, 5000 feet is fine for takeoff and landing. Even given a higher 150,000 pound empty weight, that still gives you ~57,000 pounds of payload (people and fuel), so I suspect they were well under that for a quick flight from White Plains to Groton.
I would suggest anyone flying in to have 14,500 pounds of payload (40 people, 10 crew, and 5000 in cargo/ballast to get a standard 757-200 up to the weight of a C-32) plus 29000 pounds of fuel (14,500 in each wing). Should find your performance to be very spritely.
We all think of 5000' being "short", but I've learned the last year working at Love Field (KDAL) and working directly with the MLW Air who flies the Dallas Mavericks, Dallas Stars, and Texas Rangers in a 757-200 and 767-200 that those big airplanes need a lot less runway than you think since they frequently fly with 90 or so passengers, 5,000 pounds of equipment and bags, and well north of 50,000 pounds of fuel and are airborne within 3,000 feet on a 7,000 foot runway.
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on May 24, 2015 23:58:05 GMT
Yeah, but look at that METAR, Rnwy 33 (4000ft) is the best option. I tried it this morning and landed with some runway to spare on 33. A fun little experiment with a lightly loaded 757. Mike
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on May 25, 2015 0:12:07 GMT
I've not yet taken up the challenge Mike .... BUT .... in regard to the aircraft you saw, then, I presume it was one of these .... USAF C32A/B757-200 8001 At AKL/NZAA (1999) - PHOTO: Mark.R.CRANSTONI think the USAF designate these as C32-A aircraft .... or it may be a VC32-A (depending on its configuration) .... but I'm not sure. I shot the above image at Auckland (AKL/NZAA), New Zealand, early one Friday evening .... several years ago. I've had to break down the clarity of this image slightly to enable my ease of handling it from a dial-up connection, but, one can see what it is/looks like. So far as I'm aware .... the aircraft I shot above is the only one to ever have visited AKL (it was definitely the first of the type) .... and so far as I'm aware I was also the only one whom managed to "knock the bastard off". I've got time over the next couple of days Mike, but, don't have the/a B757-200 in order to be able to take up your challenge I see (or hear) the RNZAF B757-200's flying out of RNZAF base Whenuapai (just short distance from my home) .... here in AKL .... usually on their daily milk run down to Wellington (or sometimes Christchurch). Whenuapai's main 03/21 RWY has a field length of some 6,600 FT .... and when lightly, or moderately, loaded these aircraft are well'n'truly airborne before nearing the opposing RWY threshold. In order to fly longer ranges .... whilst still originating from their RNZAF base Whenuapai (# 40 SQDN) .... they'd normally fly a short 40KM, or so, league to AKL International Airport (NZAA) for extra fuel then depart again to their destination. Our B727-100QC IGW aircraft (when we/the RNZAF had them) used to perform the same routine. I understand one of the beauties of the B757 is that its engines (each version) have plenty of reserve power .... if needed. In fact recall someome (a crew member) describing the B757 as being (possibly) "one of" the most overpowered civil aircraft in the skies. I imagine a "lightly/moderately" loaded B757-200 should have no major difficulties operating from a suitable a 5,000 FT strip .... based on what i've seen here. Still .... short field performance .... of large aircraft.... is usually quite "IMPRESSIVE" .... whenever observed. Here's a couple of video links showing the way we .... the RNZAF .... treat our B757-200's .... or should I say the way they (the RNZAF treat our public using their B757's whenever there's an audience to be had at the local zoo .... www.youtube.com/watch?v=50BRFzVxDH8www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrO6HTmF1L4.... and they used to do the same with their B727's as well .... www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z5QI1eyOSwwww.youtube.com/watch?v=E200VOPGZRwENJOY Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by Herman on May 25, 2015 0:55:39 GMT
I was up to the challenge....however, I did use the FS default weather for clear skies. A few screen shots attached. All was doable with room to spare. Wind -calm GTOW-177,502lbs Payload-14,120lbs Fuel-26,442lbs VR-125 knts. Arrival at KGON RW05 Departure KGON RW23 Arrival at KHPM RW34 Herman
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on May 25, 2015 12:41:22 GMT
Here's my landing on Rwy 33 due to the gusting wind at 310 degrees. I had 40 pax and 50% fuel which gave a weight of 165,000. Landing on that runway has to be VFR and hand flown. But due to the headwind, the GS was around 110kts and airspeed around 125 kts. I used a notch of autobrake and had about a 1/4 of runway by the time I slowed to taxi speed.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 13:25:00 GMT
Psst pssst pssst pssst 757 has most powerful take off performance of all airline planes and 757 has jet fighter performance. If 757 can handle ToncontÃn International Airport, then Groton New London airport is piece of cake Regards, Aharon
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Post by Tony Madge - HJG on May 25, 2015 15:09:19 GMT
Herman, I like that panel what is it?
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Post by Herman on May 25, 2015 16:09:22 GMT
Hello Tony; The panel that I used in the above screen shots is actually a 737-800 panel. I can't recall now if its from the default FSX 737-800 or weather I got it from the flightsim site. I use it because I can expand a couple of the screens so that I can see the numbers better. (I should probably be wearing my glasses This panel seems to work quite well for the 757's in most parameters. I seem to recall that there there are a few 757 panels available at flightsim. Some of my other 757's have this alternate panel as shown below. Herman
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 17:23:13 GMT
Tony,
It is FSX default 738 panel.
If you want great 757 panel, go for freeware ISDT 757 panel.
Regards,
Aharon
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on May 25, 2015 18:13:28 GMT
Aharon, Obviously it can handle the airport, as it landed there. The question really is can YOU land the 757 there?? More specifically, given the METAR I provided, can you do a visual approach and land, and then takeoff on Rny 33 at KGON?? That's the challenge! Mike
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Post by Tony Madge - HJG on May 25, 2015 18:33:23 GMT
Cheers guys for the panel info
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Post by christrott on May 25, 2015 23:57:07 GMT
Mike - while 15/33 might seem like the better runway, there's 2 problems with it - 1) the available landing distance on runway 33 is 3666', and it's not rated for the weight of a 757. Add to that, the METAR conditions is well within demonstrated crosswind and max gust to still use runway 5, and the USAF would have selected the C-20 (Gulfstream IV) or C-37 (Gulfstream V) instead for the flight.
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Post by walterleo on May 26, 2015 11:05:19 GMT
Strange Visit to KGON thanks to the new Cuba policy an IL-18 painted in colours of Aero Caribean: There waits another trap at RWY 23 approach;: Still room to spare (1300 m calculated at 52 to max landing weight): Captain to his Copilot: "Que bueno que no tocamos el... punte, en este pais te demandan por todo!" Thanks we didnt touch the .... bridge, in this country they are sueing you for everything". Another day on take-off: Calculated 1700 m: Rotate at 240 km/h. Not too much runway ahead: Kind regards Walter
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on May 26, 2015 22:35:17 GMT
"GOOD ONE" Walter I just about "pissed myself laughing" when I read that .... in both idioms Mark C AKL/NZ
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