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Post by jeeiii on Nov 14, 2015 23:18:46 GMT
Have an interesting mystery that we are wondering about. During the final period of the Eastern-Braniff South America Interchange, BI introduced Jet Cargo service with their new DC-8-62CF (we are still working on which 'Panagra green' it was delivered in!-unfortunately there are so far no known color photos and BI did not differentiate between the Dark/Light PG.) With BI introducing the -62CF, Eastern leased a Jet Trader N4904-C from Capitol Airways. The A/C was re-registered N8740 but no known photos exist of how the A/C was painted. The lease was short-lived (Dec. '67-Ap. '68). I write the "Lost Schemes" on airlinercafe, so we are planning to do a story on it with an illustration but likely will do some kind of "Fantasy" scheme for it and was wondering if anyone has some thoughts on this mystery. A long time Eastern employee thinks it probably was a 'sticker' A/C. It's interesting that BOTH DC-8's (N1807 and N8740) are still a mystery! We think most of these SA Interchange flights arrived back in the U.S. early in the morning or late at night which likely accounts for the lack of photos. We know the 6-Eastern Cargo Constellation had no 'Freighter' titles on the outside, so even if it was in Eastern colors, probably looked usual though anything is possible!
John
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 15, 2015 2:29:38 GMT
All I can confirm in reggard to N4940 is the following ....
DC-8-54F
C/N 45668
L/N 187
F/F July 12th 1963
- Delivered to CAPITOL INTERNATIONAL AIRWAYS (N4904C) September13 1963.
- Leased to SEABOARD WORLD AIRLINES (N4904C) March 30th 1967.
- Returned to CAPITOL INTERNATIONAL AIRWAYS (N4904C) September 1967.
- Leased to EASTERN AIR LINES (N4904) December 12t 1967.
- Returned to CAPITOL INTERNATIONAL AIRWAYS (N4904C) April 29tyh 1968.
- Leased to AVIACO (EC-CQM) April 1975.
- Sold to AVIACO (EC-CQM) January 29th 1976.
- Sold to PROGRESSIVE AIR SERVICES (EC-CQM) April 15th 1985.
- Leased to AECA AEROSERVICIOS ECUATORIANAS (HC-BLU) June 22nd 1985.
- Returned to PROGRESSIVE AIR SERVICES (EC-CQM) Februry 15th 1986.
- Sold to JBQ AViATION CORPORTION(N355Q) September 1987.
- Leased to TPI INTERNATIONAL AIRWAQYS (N355Q) October 15th 1987 .... Sub-Leased to CF AIRFREIGHT (N355Q) October 15th 1987.
- Returned to TPI INTERNATIONAL AIRWAQYS (N355Q) May 1988.
- Sub-Leased to CF AIRFREIGHT (N355Q) November 1988.
- Returned to TPI INTERNATIONAL AIRWAQYS (N355Q) July 26th 1989 .... Re-Registered "N356WS".
- Repossessed by NMB POSTBAN GROEP (N356WS) June 3rd 1991 .... Sold to TRANSCONSULT LTD (N356WS) June 3rd 1991.
- Leased to TRANSPORTES AEREOS BOLIVIANOS (CP-2217) June 5th 1991.
- Withdrawn from service and stored at La Paz, Bolivia, December 1997.
- Sold to GLOBAL AIR TRANSPORT (PP-TAR) September 21st 1998.
- Leased to TRANSPORTES CHARTRES DO BRASIL (PP-TAR) July 1999.
- Withdrawn from service and stored at Lima, Peru, February 2001 .... and later Sao Paulo, Brasil.
No EALK photos .... I'm afraqin .... but .... Peter LIDDELL is the authority on all/most things of EAL history.
Given the short duration of the lease I very much doubt this aircraft was ever painted in EAL livery .... and it may not even have been stickered either and probably remained in CAPITOL livery throughot its brief EAL service.
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 15, 2015 17:37:07 GMT
In regard to BRANIFF INTERNATIONAL AIRWAYS DC-8-62CF N1807 .... According to our records ..... this particular aircraft supported the airlines "Ocher" Jelly Bean scheme when it was delivered in 1967 .... then it supported the airlines dual "red/ocher" Flying Colours scheme during the 1970's .... and the airlines "ultra bergundy" scheme during 1980's .... Some BRANIFF DC-8's did undergo major colour scheme changes (some of which were short-lived due to later colour matching difficulties) .... if fact I found this particular reference in regard to N1807 specifically .... I've also seen imagery relating to N1807 supporting a shade referred to as the airlines "Panagra Green" scheme .... and which (if the following model depiction is authentic) seems to be the lighter, rather than the darker, shade of this particular BRANIFF referenced green .... www.pilotstoresusa.com/store/p/84267-Braniff-DC-8-62-N1807-1-200-Limited-to-100-models.html
cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server1900/9aa77/products/15178/images/25227/IF2BRN6203_DC8_BI_Green_02__79345.1345734505.1280.1280.jpg?c=2.... whilst remembering that BRANIFF also used and even lighter shade of green too .... "lime green" .... of the shade that was applied to DC-62 N1805. Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by jeeiii on Nov 16, 2015 1:36:29 GMT
A former Eastern employee thought the same thing that since it was a Cargo lse. that not likely it was painted in EAL colors. As far as N1807, we did a recent 16-part 'Jellybean' series on airlinercafe that we are very confident is the most accurate and updated online. We made virtual chips of all the colors based on an eyewitness who was a fanatic BI fan and was on 'JB's weekly during the 1965-71 period, so we welcome any scrutiny. We know that N1807 -62CF was delivered in "PG", unfortunately BI did not differentiate between New Green (Light Panagra Green) and (Dark) Panagra Green which was the RARER of the two and only was applied from Feb-Aug. 1967. So far no color photos are known of N1807 in 1967-68. We have (2) B & W's but the two "PG"s look very close in B & W. N1807 was repainted Ochre in early 1969. It appears both N1807 and the Capitol lse N8740 were both on the new Jet Cargo SA Interchange until early 1968, when a pair of 707-327C's took over for BI. It's possible Eastern may have changed to the 727QC's after the Jet Trader was returned to Capitol. I have posted the question on Peter's Eastern site. The SA schedule likely put the A/C back in the U.S. during the early morning or late evening which is why we think there are so few photos of N1807 in it's "PG" original color...........John
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 16, 2015 18:33:56 GMT
[/img] Given that N1807 was delivered to BN during November 1967 (November 13th 1967 to be precise) .... and apparently in the green shade (as my above reaearch mentions), then, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the lighter shade of "Panagra Green" that you say was introced during 1967 .... as which approximates the shade appearing the model imagery I posted above. I speculate (only) that a new aircraft delivery .... and in a/the new colour/shade too .... is probably the most likely of scenarios. BN also changed aircraft colours from time-to-time (as frequently as all folk shouls change their underware  ) and which can also add to confusion/uncertainty in regard to both individual aircraft as well as coulours/shades they each supported during different periods. Can you post a URL link to that/your BN article "HERE" ? Some people here might appreciate reading it  Sounds interesting  Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by jeeiii on Nov 16, 2015 23:09:23 GMT
Mark: We're planning an update on Chapter #1 (Dark) Panagra Green, so here's the link to #2 (Original) Dark Blue www.airlinercafe.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=8758 (sent by Yahoo! Toolbar) All the chapters are numbered and on the 'Civil Forum' of the Airlinercafe website. It was a 3-yr project and about 18 months to finish posting. We worked with the Braniff Preservation Group and we think we did a good job of at least correcting the common misunderstandings and we did a detailed fleet accounting for each color and also the many variations used on each A/C type! Should be very helpful the fine work you do here. Maybe someday if you'd like I can email you all the chips. Our goal was to put the most detailed information out there and to share it with all 'JB' fans! Please feel free to question anything we have listed.....We have some new details to add to DKPG chapter which is another goal of the project-to keep updating as new information becomes available. The dates with each color are the application period which of course means that some of the colors were seen a bit later but BI's normal repaint schedule was 18-24 mos but some colors due to wear issues had some shorter application periods. We did not cover the Periwinkle Blue (Lavender) as it was applied to (1) A/C which was actually re-painted BEFORE the November '65 'official' beginning the the 'End Of The Plain Plane' campaign. John |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 17, 2015 15:44:17 GMT
Interesting feature John .... "THANKS" for posting that Particularly interesring, to me, that image of BAC ONE-ELEVEN N1542 .... in the "blue" scheme .... "Corvette Blue" I think that particular shade was officislly known as. I knew BN operated the ONE-ELEVEN (they even lost one too as I recall) .... and I knew they were operated in the original BN El Dorado type scheme, and some of the Jely Bean schemes also, and finally 2 of the Flying Colours schemes ("Red/Aztec Gold" and "Green/Lime" as I recall)as well, but, I didn't know that what appears to be the "Corvette Blue" Jelly Bean shade was ever applied to any of these aircraft. Keep that BN information comming as you post/publish .... If you care to Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by jeeiii on Nov 18, 2015 17:09:15 GMT
Mark: We never came across the use of Corvette Blue but that would be interesting to find out further about! Here are the two possible "Panagra Green's" the N1807 was delivered in....   Unfortunately, all the known early photos of it are in B & W! We actually have two MDC assembly line photos of it but amazingly it's in a primer with a fully marked tail! What happened was since it was the first -62CF, it was used for the CF certification in October 1967, then delivered in November to BI. MDC decided to sell -62 #1 to SAS in August 1967, so N1807 became the test bed for the -62CF/F program. So many twists and turns explains how this 48 yr-old mystery continues on what the delivery color of N1807 was!!! We just found an interesting snippet on the Eastern Jet Trader DC-8 lse which also helps us to confirm that N1807 was in fact used as an all-cargo DC-8 on the Eastern-BI South America Interchange. It was replaced in early 1968 by a pair of 707-327C's, as BI soon discovered that it was better to use the -62CF as a passenger DC-8 only and it remained that way for the rest of it's years with BI. What happened on the Eastern Jet Trader is that when BI got permission for (2)weekly All-Cargo SA Interchange flights Eastern was by agreement had to use a 'similar' type A/C for their NY/Newark-Miami segment but they did not have a DC-8F!! So this is when they had to lease the Capitol Jet Trader for the twice weekly segment, so likely it was 'wet' lease with a fully marked Capitol Jet Trader. Clearly BI and Eastern were on the outs by this point and in 1969 BI got the entire NY-South America route. We'll do a "Lost Scheme" story on this little known story and likely will make up a 'fantasy' Eastern Jet Trader for the story.......John (Dark) Panagra Green is actually W.R. Grace Green and was used on the funnels of all the W.R. Grace ships from the beginning 1890-1973. Only 5-6 A/C were ever painted in it. (2) 727-27's were delivered in it during 1967 but the Black fuselage titles were difficult to see and after about a year, it became almost 'flat' in tone and was not very attractive. Most of the 5-6 A/C were repainted before the 18-24 mos normal period. New Green (Light Panagra Green) was actually one of the most popular colors, especially in the final 1969-71 period of the 'Jellybean-era'. If you want maybe I can just put them all in a new post and do a brief overview of each? Our goal was always to get them out so everyone can use them! |
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Post by jeeiii on Nov 18, 2015 18:07:30 GMT
Mark:
What I can do is post each color chip and the 727 profile that our graphic artist Eric LaBorde did for each one. His profiles really give the color a 3D look, as opposed to the flat chips. We had a choice of doing a 727 or One-11, as only those 2 types had all the colors except the one-off Lavender Blue 720 N7076. We have some interesting 727 profiles that leased which have some variations that we can show!
John
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) and which can also add to confusion/uncertainty in regard to both individual aircraft as well as coulours/shades they each supported during different periods. 
