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Post by ssi02 on Oct 20, 2018 18:27:00 GMT
Just installed the DC-8s up through the -40 series. Everything went in exactly as prescribed.
After starting FSX, and locating the DC-8-10 UAL color scheme in select aircraft view, located the default aircraft (powered glider) at Boeing/King Field parking area. Switched aircraft to the DC-8-10 UAL. Shut down the engines by using ctrl-shift-F1. Then went to the checklist I got off this site for starting the DC-8-10's engines. I've included the first few lines below to show which checklist I'm using:
Go to Main Panel ....
- Ensure Parking Brakes are "ON".
- Ensure engines are all shutdown.
- Ensure AP is "OFF".
- Ensure YD is "OFF".
- Ensure Flaps are retracted.
- Ensure engine Ejectors/Translation Rings are retracted (DC-8-10/-20/30/-30 aircraft versions only).
- Ensure Water Injection system is disengaged (DC-8 SHIP ONE 1958 and DC-8-10 aircraft versions only).
Followed this checklist rigidly up to engine 3 start procedure which, again, was followed exactly IAW this checklist. I get to this section:
- Using the mouse curser .... slowly/cautiously .... advance the Center Pedestal #3 engine thrust lever only .... until the Main panel #3 engine N2 gauge e3indicates approximately N2 75% .... at which point the Overhead Panel "AIR PRESSURE START" gauge will display a corresponding "3" (or approximately 32 PSI) infication.
. . . and hit a dead end. No. 3 sticks at 62% and despite the most cautious advancement of the no. 3 thrust lever, it remains at 62% and the Air Pressure Start gauge will remain rigidly in the low end of the scale. I have isolated no. 3 thrust lever so it advances using the F3 keyboard key (sorry, attempting to isolate the thrust lever using "E+3", then the throttle lever on the joystick, just does not work) and tap it gently upward but after 10 minutes of this there is no increase in N2 or in the Air Pressure Start gauge. Starting remains stuck at this point.
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Post by simtech on Oct 20, 2018 19:43:26 GMT
SSI02, Please pardon, I am no expert, however, I have experienced a similiar problem and I discovered I had not turned on the fuel pumps down in the lower middle part of the panel. I think the configuration is something from left to right like: off on on on off on on on off on on. The manual has explicit information about the pump configuration. (Please disregard.. I noticed -40 and assumed it was the DC-10-40. The DC-8 panels doesn't have fuel pump switches... my bad....sorry) Also, one of my models loaded without any fuel. Once adding fuel, all went well. I'm sure the experts will jump in here soon. They will get you sorted out..
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 20, 2018 22:13:32 GMT
I´m an FS2004 user only, and the manual stated procedures are written for this FS version, but, the prescribed startup procedures for our DC-8´s (and the same startup pocedures also apply to our CV-880´s and CV-990´s too) "do" (apparently) work .... or "can" ber made to work "in FSX" too. I really need Benoit (in particular) .... or Nathan to try´n assist/talk you through this procedure "in respect of FSX" .... BUT .... until one of these 2 guys is free to be able to do so I recommend you use the "default FS engine shutdown (CTRL+SHIFT+F1) and engine auto-startup (CNTRL+E) keyboard commands" (I think these remain the same in FSX) in order to both shutdown, and start all 4 engines. PLEASE NOTE: This default FS auto-engine startup procedure is accomplished without using panels ground service air supply .... and in this case the engines will also be started in the default FS order of numbers 1/2/3/and 4 .... and not in accordance with the panels required manual engine startup order of number 3 ("first" and always) and then number 4/1/and 2. ALSO: Have you tried the alternative engine startup procedure as stated within the manual ? This procedure requires that the ground service air supply be used to start "all 4 engines" .... commencing wih engine number 3 ("first" and always) .... BUT THEN .... does not require engine 3 to be run up to N2 70% or 3200 PSI on the engine startup air pressure gauge . Instead .... the ground service air supply is (once again) used to start the remaining 3 engines in the order specified. Can you give this alternative engine staretup method a go please (precisely as presribed per the manual) and report back ? In the meantime .... and as I mentioned above .... and supported by the follwing .... following DC-8 engine startup videos "which were made in FSX" and using the recommended procedure/s which "do" seem to work "in FSX" and as evidenced as follows .... DC-8-10/12/12 www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMVjAxBU5bMDC-8-20/30 www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI3ZSzWzL8c&list=PLTSY5-fFxYR8-2--H2h2EZUlQ4z-29NAqDC-8-40 www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQPSdGZ3E5QDC-8-50 & SUPER 61 www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtulRWqBrtU&list=PLTSY5-fFxYR95Yc_dvdQMVm1Flq2zdplLDC-8 SUPER 62/63 www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2lxNa6nlMQDC-8 SUPER 71/72/73 www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBG2g6YBfZoPLESASE NOTE: The prescribed engine startup procedures for all DC-8 pnel are identical and fo both FS versions. Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 20, 2018 22:49:00 GMT
Just covering a couple of your descriptions ....
There shouldn´t be any problem/s in FSX associated with using ones Mouse Cursor to manipulate engine number 3 thrust lever.
Ordinarily you shouldn´t need FSUIPC in order to be be able to do so (for infdividual thut lever control) in FSX either .... because these panels are progrmmed in order for the engine number 3 thrust lever to be manipulased as required/precribed during engine startup using either ones Mouse Cursor or E+3 keyboard commands for both FS versions.
The prescribed procedures are known to work faultlessly over the past 16 years during which each gestation of these DC-8 panel have been available.
The following has just occurred to me though (based on something Terry/"SIMTECH" has just replied) and which I ask you to note carefully and try ....
When selecting CNTRL+SHIFT+F1 keyboard commands (although the manual states the CESSNA engine should be shutdown using the Starter/Shutdown Swich on the panel) this action is akin to telling FS to "close all fuel pumps/valves" and which then kills all engines immediately .... but .... this action may also cause issues in regard to "some" (not all) FS installations.
Ordinarily .... selecting CNTRL+SHUFT+F1 keyboard commands to shutdown all 4 engines should also result in each of the 4 fuel ignition levers, on the DC-8 CP sub panel, being reset to their down/closed positions.
I have, however, witnessed "one occasion only" (on someone elses system) where, after using this procedure to shutdown all 4 engines, FS seemed to remember that these commands had effecively closed the fuel pumps/vlves and the engines could not then be restarted normally .... in accordance with the prescribed procedure/s.
If using CNTRL+SHIFT+F1 keyboard commands to shutdown all 4 engines .... THEN .... prior to attempting to restart the engines, and prior to applying any of our recommended procedures to do so also, try seleting keyboard commands CNTRL+SHIFT+F4 which is akin to telling FS to "open all fuel pumps/valves" (I don´t think this will cause the 4 fuel ignition levers to default to their open/on positions) .... AND THEN .... try implementing either of our 2 recommended manual engine startup procedures following this action.
ALSO .... in order to shutdown all 4 engines .... on some systems (and for the above stated reasoning) it may be better to do so by manually selecting each of the 4 fuel ignition levers to their down/closed positions an which is the intended procedure. This action should then result in an unmolested manual engine startup of all 4 engines latr .... once again using either of our 2 recommended procedures .... and after each fuel lever is individually engaged.
Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Oct 21, 2018 7:10:41 GMT
Hi ssi02, you sent me a pm about this issue back on the 19th which you have still to reply to.
Cheers,
Nathan
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 21, 2018 11:17:37 GMT
"SSIO2" .... were happy to "try´n" help you (anyone), but, do need people to try´n help themseves too .... to the extent of collaborating with us in repect of the advice we provide .... and preferrably on our public forum too in order that more folk than whom ever ask any question might in future benefit from both other peoples experiences as well as the solutions we offer too. More than 90% of peoples issues/queries on this form are resolved .... or an acceptable workaround provided. So please .... get back to us "here" as Nathan hints Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by ssi02 on Oct 21, 2018 17:51:32 GMT
Some RW things have now passed so I can do as you request.
I am now free to "help myself."
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Post by ssi02 on Oct 21, 2018 17:54:03 GMT
Also, I shut down the powered glider's engine with ctrl+shift+F1. Will try implementing your instruction re: ctrl+shift+F4 before going through engine start procedure, to mimic opening master fuel cock for all engines.
NOTE: This action has NO effect on startup. Still same situation as before.
Now digging up alternate method of starting.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 21, 2018 19:13:01 GMT
If you´re not having any success with the recommended procedures .... as outlined within the manual and evidenced per the FSX video links above .... then .... Have you tried implementing the above recommended default FS engine startup procedure using CNTRL+E keyboard commands (this "can´t" not work)? .... even though you shouldn´t have to use it.
Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Oct 22, 2018 9:20:35 GMT
Hi ssi02
Have you tried this version of the start sequence?
Let me know if this helps. Also, exactly what version of FSX are you running?
Cheers,
Nathan
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Post by ssi02 on Oct 22, 2018 15:00:30 GMT
NF and Aerofoto - good news at last. The new method of startup as sent by Nathan above DOES work for two of the engines (3-4). 1 and 2 still hang up some (I got through the complete process but the engines still held at about 62% after startup), I had to prod with ctrl + e but they eventually cranked all the way, too. Before I never got the same rising/falling engine tone after the cycle completed, with any of the engines. This time around I got that sound as well as the little surge in RPM.
I have a question re: the EGT gauge for each engine. During startup I noted the needle on the EGT gauge for all four made at least two complete revolutions before settling down to a nearly-stationary status at ground idle. Is this business of multiple complete 360 degree revolutions normal for this engine on this aircraft?
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 22, 2018 15:22:22 GMT
From what you´re describing I wouldnt call that good news, but rather, a mere small step in the right direction. Are you using FSX STEAM .... or .... FSX ACCELERATION edition ?What Nathan queries of you is a very valid question Also need you to tty the 3rd engine startup porocedure I mentioned above .... the (one not featured within the manual) using the default CNTRL+E method ... .and which, so far as I´m aware, works/should work undr all circumstances albeit that the engine will then be started in accordance with the defult FS ordr of number 1/2/3/and 4 and without the panels ground supplied pneumatic air assistance. "NO" .... but it could be symptomatic of whatever the problem is that´s molesting your normal engine startup attempts. Are you revising the engine startup video links I posted for you above ? .... because these clearly indicate that what youé describing (re EGT .... if not the rest too) simply shouldn´t be happening. Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by ssi02 on Oct 23, 2018 13:18:36 GMT
I am running FSX Deluxe Edition, which was boxed and over the counter.
Here's a system profile:
Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 AMD Phenom II X4 940 Processor, 3.00GHz 12.0 GB RAM 64-bit OS AMD Radeon R9 380 Series video card
Will report results of MS default startup using ctrl + e shortly.
EDIT: Just finished trial w/ctrl + e start. Went flawlessly. In 1-2-3-4 sequence as you said. No oddities with the gauges of any kind.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 23, 2018 18:21:59 GMT
That´s the first positive" news I´ve read on this thread so far. At least you can now get all 4 engines started .... albeit not using either of the two ground service air supply procedures as outlined per our DC-8 manual. It´fd be nice to figure out exactly what´s actually going on with your own installation though and that´s preventing the recommended procedures from functioning. I think, from your success of today, we can assume there´s nothing in the panel/s that´s preventing normal engine startup and that everything´s been installed correctly .... so .... whatever´s going wrong, in you particular case must be "procedural" or thje rsult of something else on your system/within FS that may be interfering/frustrating things. The procedure/s we recommend .... per the 2 fully manual engine startup tutorial options .... have throughout the past 16 years that these panels have been available (for FS2000, FS2002, FS2004, and FSX) only been proven to work flawlessly .... provided they´re correctly implemented to start with. Benoit´s above linked FSX videos indicate no problem/s with these recommended procedures .... or necessary departure from these (for the sake of FSX) .... as my be seen, so, I ask you to once again pay close attention to these and try to relate what´s seen, within each video, to what´s instructed within each of our two tutorials .... just in case there´s a vital step you´re (perhaps) misunderstanding. Incidentally .... the reason we recently asked you which version of FSX you´re using is because during the past 24 hours (as part of our investigation/s into your report) I´ve since heard from two "technically experienced/very competént" individuals in regard to these DC-8 panels and FSX, and our recommended fully manual engine startup procedures too as follows .... One states our recommended procedures work fine with FSX STEAM EDITION and not so fine with FSX ACCELERATION .... whilst the other states our recommended procedures work fine with FSX ACCELERATION and not so fine with FSX STEAM EDITION Different results can be experienced (sometimes inexplicably) on different systems .... of course .... and we, at best, can only analyse each forum report (and we do take all reports seriously) "on the basis of the infomation that´s presented to us" in order to try´n identify, or otherwise guess, what may be happening .... or even what´s possibly even not being implemented properly per individual interpretation/s of the instructions/tutorials we provide. I´m "not" suggesting the latter applies to your particular case .... but .... 18 years of experience have taught us we "do" need to consider "all possibilities". As I mentioned at the very start of this thread I´m extremely experienced with our DC-8´s (all of our simulations in fact) .... but .... I´m not totally FSX conversant other than understanding some of its bsics and knowing which files we offer that are, and aren´t, FSX portable, so, I can´t specifically identify your particular problem, so, have had to draw upon our knowledge of commonly made mistakes as well as deferring to the FSX experience/competence of those in whom I/we trust most. In the absence of any further and more enlightening advice being forthcomming .... I want you to be sure you´re practicing the following .... "BEFORE" trying either of our two fully manual engine startup procedures .... be sure to load "an FS default aircraft" into FSX. Don´t just select it/one in the FS Aicraft Selection menu .... you must select one, and let it fully load into FS, and then stabilize .... "THEN" .... select your DC-8 (or CV-880, CV-990, or B707) of choice. During this aircraft selection, loading, and swapping procedure "DO NOT" make any adjustmentnts whatsoever to the FS default aircraft panel .... other than shutting down it´s engine/s "using the engine start/shutdown switch/es/levers" (preferrably not using CNTRL+SHIFT+F1 keyboard commands though). We need to know you´re at least performing this step correctly .... and all we then ask you to do, once again, is to relate to our recommended startup procedures, precisely as outlined, as well as then relating these to what´s actually seen to be performed within each of the above linked videos. If everything´s being performed correctly then there´s really no logical reason for the outlined procedures to not work. Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by ssi02 on Oct 23, 2018 23:05:02 GMT
Understood.
On another site I've mentioned I experienced throttles that, within the sim, whether it's a piston-engine or jet aircraft, would creep up and down by several percent of engine power output, MAP or thrust percentages. One of the old-timers on the site said I should be certain the default FSX aircraft should be selected first, and after moving to the desired airport and loading the sim, the throttle moved up and down slightly to ensure movement was registered, or sensed, by the sim. At that point, I should pause the flight, select the aircraft I desired, and load it in place of the default.
That does seem to help w/the the throttle, I get practically no "creep," but I'm not certain this isn't just a function of the joystick I have - a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - just being worn out after practically daily use for about the last 8 years.
You are recommending almost the same thing for this startup anomaly, except for the manual shutdown procedure being followed on the default aircraft before switching to the DC-8.
I will try your recommended engine startup procedures - try all three, in fact, including the ctrl+e - after applying the manual shutdown action and see if that makes any difference with any of them. May take about a day or so, but will report results.
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