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Post by George Carty - HJG on Apr 18, 2006 9:33:59 GMT
I have some pictures in a book of a very old 707-120B flight deck. The instruments are arranged ASI ADI ALT V/S T/S HSI RMI CLOCK MACH The HSI does not include a glideslope or a DME indicator - the only DME indicator is under the RMI (my own FS 707 panel arranged the gauges in the same way, but has a modern HSI with DME and glideslope - in my panel I use the DME-under-RMI to indicate DME2 data, while the HSI indicates DME1. Did this aircraft only have one DME? Also the ADI has a background which rolls only, while the aircraft symbol itself moves up and down (call it an "anti-Soviet" ADI  , as a Soviet ADI was the opposite - the aircraft symbol rolled while the background moved up and down). There is a needle across the face, pivoted at the bottom, and a glideslope indicator at the left-hand side. Were these simple VOR/ILS indicators superimposed on an attitude indicator, and not a proper flight director? Here's the only image of this kind of flight deck I could easily find online (sorry about the poor quality) - someone here may be able to recognize this type of instrumentation (the aircraft is an American 720-023).  |
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Post by Harerton Dourado - HJG on Apr 18, 2006 12:10:24 GMT
Hi George,
The picture in your post is not appearing. If you could send it to my email I'll take a look at it and try to find out the answers.
All the best,
Harerton
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Post by George Carty - HJG on Apr 18, 2006 12:12:27 GMT
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Post by johndetrick on Apr 18, 2006 12:44:39 GMT
I couldn't access the link to the photo, but based on some of our Dc8's of that era, they did have two DME's. However the #1 DME was usually displayed on the Captains side and the #2 was displayed on the FO's side. Our ex United 71's are still set up that way. John
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Post by Harerton Dourado - HJG on Apr 18, 2006 18:37:43 GMT
Wow this picture reminded the old Probst FS98 panel, which I use to enjoy very much! We need this one in FS9!
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Post by chris on Apr 18, 2006 19:00:45 GMT
Not sure if it was due to the limitations of technology or the cost effectiveness of doing it, but the older (mid/late 50's) aircraft instruments lacked the integration of their more modern (mid 60's in this case) counterparts. The hsi (or more properly in this case, MHDI, magnetic heading deviation indicator) was very simple, and as john stated, there is (usually) a seperate dme readout for dme1 on the captain's side, and dme2 was on the co-pilot side. Keep in mind, not all airlines had the same layout either over the years, as one airline may have had both dme readouts in the hsi ala the hjg dc-8 panels, where others like United had seperate gauges for the dme, and the course readout was in the hsi, and had a simpler flight director mode control panel. An interesting tidbit is the gyro driving the captain's HSI compass drives the compass card on the F/O RMI, and the F/O HSI drives the captain's RMI. Neat, eh? Something a non pilot like myself would never think about, yet when you learn of it, it makes perfect sense.
Although I can't say for sure, it doesn't look like the 707 in the photo had a flight director (looks to be a very early photo), as the vertical needle in the ADI looks to be the deviation indicator, which is what you assumed, for following the vor/ils, and the bar on the left is the glideslope indicator. I love old photos like that.
Hope some of this was helpful and not more confusing!
Chris
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 18, 2006 19:24:11 GMT
Actually .... this's a very valid point and one which comes to light frequently when using any imagery upon which to base panel instrument layout. There's not necessarily any standard type instrument layout. Most airlines had panel instrument layouts tailored to their preferences .... and quite often too with diffrent instrument standard/types as well. I feel these are always little details to be borne in mind when developing FS panels. Unless one wants to model the layout and standard of a particular airline, I think it's best to aim for an authentic looking "FS general standard". Thanks for all that Chris .... and John Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by johndetrick on Apr 18, 2006 22:37:24 GMT
A man could drive himself to drink trying to emulate every different DC-8 panel in the flight sim world. You guys should have seen the old Air canada 63's where they tried to make it a two man cockpit. It was hilarious.
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Post by johndetrick on Apr 18, 2006 22:40:37 GMT
what's this "thingypit" instead of c*ckpit. At my airline we still call it the the c*ckpit instead of the politically correct flight deck. Our female pilots and flight attendants have no problem with it. In fact the running joke is "what seperates the flight attendants from the scum of the earth? The c*ckpit door"
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 18, 2006 23:26:41 GMT
;D ;D ;D ;D .... that's a good one John .... I like it .... ;D ;D ;D ;D Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by chris on Apr 18, 2006 23:58:54 GMT
You guys should have seen the old Air canada 63's where they tried to make it a two man thingypit. It was hilarious. John, was that the setup where the first officer's seat was on VERRRRRY long tracks so he could slide all the way back to the engineer's panel? I thought that thing was a handful with three people, I can only imagine the issues with two! Talk about "feasability and safety concerns".  |
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Post by George Carty - HJG on Apr 19, 2006 7:38:28 GMT
what's this "thingypit" instead of c*ckpit. At my airline we still call it the the c*ckpit instead of the politically correct flight deck. Our female pilots and flight attendants have no problem with it. In fact the running joke is "what seperates the flight attendants from the scum of the earth? The c*ckpit door" Indeed, I wrote the original message with c*ckpit and only changed it to "flight deck" when I noticed the censorship... |
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, as a Soviet ADI was the opposite - the aircraft symbol rolled while the background moved up and down). There is a needle across the face, pivoted at the bottom, and a glideslope indicator at the left-hand side. Were these simple VOR/ILS indicators superimposed on an attitude indicator, and not a proper flight director?
