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Post by willemkelder on Jun 4, 2009 11:58:36 GMT
Hallo,
I have a question about the 707-420 flap indication.
I read that the take off flap position is 14 deg but the flap indication reads 10 deg and the flap pos/speed placards shows (I think) the correct flap speeds for the 420?.
Also the checklist shows different flap pos/speeds.
Is there perhaps a small fix or other gauges to install to correct this.
rgds Willem
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Post by George Carty - HJG on Jun 4, 2009 12:24:17 GMT
Oops, sorry about that -- it's a blooper on the main panel bitmap.
The correct take-off flap setting for the 707-420 is 30 degrees.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 4, 2009 13:05:02 GMT
"30 DEGREES" !  Are you sure about that George ?  That seems a hell of a lot of flap for T/O .... assuming that RWY's of a typical/decent length are used ! I generaly use .... and have alwaysd used 1 knotch of flap for all the old/early B707's .... and then 2 knotches of flap for all the later versions. Mark C BOG/CO |
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Post by willemkelder on Jun 4, 2009 13:44:51 GMT
Hallo,
At some performance and procedures sheets i found 14 deg for the -300B and 17 deg for the -300C and adv, there is no 30 deg for those aircrafts.
But 30 deg is too much for take -off.
Is there a correct checklist and panel bitmap avail for the -420?
rgds Willem
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Post by George Carty - HJG on Jun 4, 2009 21:09:57 GMT
I thought it was 17 degrees for the -320B Early, 14 degrees for the -320B Advanced and the -320C, and 30 degrees for the other marques...
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 4, 2009 22:07:31 GMT
So far as I'm aware you're right regarding those Flap detents for the EARLY -320B, then both the -320B ADVC, -320C, & -700 aircraft .... but .... I very much doubt (though I stand to be corrected too) that Flap 30 was ever a commonly used T/O setting for the earlier B707 versions.
I am aware though of reference having previously been made (on this forum) that larger T/O flap setting might have been more common in respect of early USAF C135 TYPE aircraft operations .... but there again .... as I recall these military aircraft had a different wing, and, operated at higher weights than their civil counterparts too.
Mark C
BOG/CO
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Post by willemkelder on Jun 5, 2009 9:51:19 GMT
Hallo, Thanks for the reply,s. But is there somewhere other reference avail for the -420 for the correct flaps settings and perhaps and a fix for panel bitmap. Because at the -420 there is 10-20 ect deg of settings on the indicator. And at the panel there is reference which is for the -300 14/17 etc deg! All the information included in the -420 base package i read is for the -300 not for for -420 rgds Willem. |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 5, 2009 14:00:40 GMT
I don't know of any published technical material (apart from AOM's .... a full library of which is incredibly difficult to source) which clearly defines the individual flap detents which apply to each individual B707/720 aircraft type. I'll state (as follows) what I do know about this though .... Flap settings for the B707-320 & -420 should both be the same .... and are in our simulation .... albeit possibly incorrectly labeled per their gauge indications as flap 10/20/30/40/50 detents. I suspect these setting should start at FLAP 17 .... for the B707-320 & -420 .... which I also believe is the same minimum flap setting which should apply to B707-320B (early) too. B707-320B ADVC, -320C, & -700 flap settings are different and should start at FLAP 14. A quick review of our current B707/720 panels indicates each supports a gauge labeled with the same flap 10/20/30/40/50 detents .... which may be correct for the early B707/720´s, but, not for the later versions. I don't know if this is an oversight on our part .... or .... if it's the result of the wrong gauge reference appearing in the PANEL.CFG .... assuming the correct gauge for each might be included within the gauges/core files package However incorrectly stated these flap detents may appear on "some" panels .... I do know that George did adjust the FDE to influence the drag component for each aircraft type (very minor edits indeed .... and most folk probably wouldn't even notice the difference anyway) according to the correct flap settings for each type .... as best as FS will allow without adversely influencing anything else !!!!  NOW .... HERE's THE DEAL .... Even if George were able to correct this immediately .... it would still require the complete reuploading of "some" panels, as well as the supporting gauges/core files package too .... and .... I (for one) simply can't attend to this immediately because of private and professional commitments .... and .... other planned project releases which I'm reluctant to delay too much longer. Discrepancy though this may be .... I feel its only a very minor one !!!! Our last B707 panel/gauge/core files update was more than 1 year ago. This is the very first occasion this particular issue has been raised since that last update .... or .... prior to it either considering several versions of these panels have been released over the past 3 years. "EVERYONE" .... will have to put up with this discrepancy until it can be addressed at a more convenient future date .... SORRY !!!!  I don't know what's going on there .... because I still have ("HERE") the original B707-420 Aircraft Base Pack as last prepared and uploaded .... and .... I confirm it does contain the correct B707-420 data. Have you possibly got your FDE muddled ?  The B707-320 & -420 data is identical. Both aircraft are essentially the same .... the only major differences between them being engine type, fuel configuration, and possibly some very minor weight variance as well. PLEASE NOTE ALSO: There's actually no such thing as a "B707-300" aircraft .... other than FAA references to define the -300 family (comprising of B707-320, -320B, -320B ADVC, & -320C aircraft) generally. A small detail .... maybe .... but .... and important one to bear in mind !  Mark C BOG/CO |
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Post by willemkelder on Jun 6, 2009 10:43:10 GMT
Hallo everyone,
Thanks for the reply,s.
It is not my intension to make it a very big issue, it is still a hobby.
My question was:
Is there a small fix for this because i found some interfering data.
But what i understand now is that the flap indicator must be changed in readings 14/17 (depending on type) etc, and the text (flap/speed) on the panel is correct for all aircrafts.
So if there is flap gauge with this readings somewhere i can use it and i have to change cfg file to correct this?
So normal take flaps settings is 14/17(depending on type).
rgds Willem
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 6, 2009 14:41:18 GMT
Not one that's available from us .... YET ! Not quite right really .... As I understand things .... all that needs to be done here (by us) is that the correct flap settings of each of the later model B707/720's must first be reconfirmed .... then the actual flap increments (numbers) as currently displayed on some flap gauges need to be be changed to read the correct numbers for each aircraft type .... then the new gauge/s included within an updated Gauges/Core Files package, and those new gauge/s then also assigned to the appropriate PANEL.CFG .... and everything (Gauges/Core Files, and panels) then reuploaded accordingly. It's just that the release of any fix is likely to be delayed .... simply because I'm currently working of 2 non-HJG projects which we (HJG) have been authorized to host, and which I want to avoid delaying too much longer .... and .... I simply don't want to overburdening Dan with these, plus the fixes, plus all our other new previewed/planned releases too in what's shaping up to be another reasonably large website update.. For the time being .... just assume FLAP 17 for B707-320, -320B Early), & -420 .... and FLAP 14 for B707-320B ADVC, -320C, & -700 .... and despite whatever the flap gauges currently read. Everything else for these aircraft .... in relation to their FDE(AIRCRAFT.CFG and AIR.FILE) is correct .... so far as I'm aware ! Mark C BOG/CO |
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Post by willemkelder on Jun 11, 2009 14:45:02 GMT
Hallo,
I found a flightdeck picture on "airliners.net" of a -430 and there
you can clearly see that the used flap settings are 10-20 till 50 deg.
So the panel with the flap gauge for HJG -420 is correct but only the tekst on main panel needs to changed and some reference information like take off flap settings.
Hope this helps.
rgdsWillem.
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