Legalizing panels for today with TCAS

[George Carty - HJG]

All the panels on the site at present (including my own 707 panel in development) would be illegal for use in real aviation in the present day, due to their lack of TCAS equipment. Should we include alternate electronic VSI gauges to take account of this, in order to give a realistic simulation of "old aircraft, flown in modern era"? This may be especially appropriate for the "Fake Planes"...

(TCAS is normally included in an electronic VSI, when it is retrofitted to pre-EFIS aircraft).

[Harerton Dourado - HJG]

I think it would be a good idea to add this feature as an option.

I currently use a customized version of my own panel with a TCAS.

[garryrussell]

I would think that is not the right thing to do

The whole point of this group is historic jets

A lot of time is spent to make then as historically accurate as possible

It would be wrong for time to be wasted making them something they were not, unless of course they are genuine example like that in which case it should be confined to them.

It's a bit like fitting DC 8's and Convairs with winglets as an option just because if they were modern types they would have them.

Garry

[Harerton Dourado - HJG]

That´s why I suggested it to be an option, not a default item. The user could choose to install it or not.

In fact some repaints available repesents aircraft still in use, like the BETA Cargo 707, that probably have a TCAS installed.

[garryrussell]

Hi Harerton

What would be really useful is a set of modules that enable bit to be added to any panel and then one can modify to suit.

My only concern here is pressure being put upon authors to spend their time on things not really true to the job.

But it's only my opinion and as you pointed out you are only suggesting an option.

The great thing about a group like this is that folks can discuss their views and hopefully that will tune the end result more to what is wanted.

Garry

[chris]

Although I more or less agree with Garry, and I haven't even added the tcas to my own modified panel, I do see that a lot of people like to fly aircraft that are presently being flown, and would appreciate having a present day "upgraded" panel to go with it.

A simple solution would be adding the tcas/vsi as a pop-up window (like the hjg "oversized airspeed" pop-up), which would simply overlay the existing vsi that is already on the panel, so users can use whatever is appropriate. But I would suggest only having the instructions on how to do it, and a download of the gauge/pop up panel itself on this site, in order to use the least amount of hjg's time and resources. This would be a do-it-yourself package for adding it to the pre-existing hjg panel. I am assuming this would be limited to the 60 and 70 series panels only, further reducing the resources needed to implement this add-on.

Chris

[Harerton Dourado - HJG]

Yes folks! That's it. There is a good TCAS gauge available arround that's easily adaptable to any panel. The panel developers have no need to program it. But we can provide the "how to" in order to adapt it.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

As "GARRY RUSSELL" mentioned above, most of HJG's inventory is representative of aircraft and airlines that flew prior to TCAS becomming a mandatory requirement.

However I think we should try to cater for those whom don't want TCAS so obvious (for the above reason), and also those whom would like too have it installed in their panels.

For this reason I like "CHRIS's" suggestion above .... if it's at all practical to do something like he suggests

Just my 50 cents worth

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[jpvisser]

well,considering
i already have a modified bitmap etc,
as shown in another thread,i'd say simply enable a
third download for -60 or -70 with present day TCAS v7.
i've used it a long time as i do fly online with vatsim,
and it works very good.

JP.

[chris]

Whether or not it is "practical" to do so is up to the HJG staff as this site is all about "historic" jets. But in reality, all it would take is putting a small zip file on the website, which would only need to contain the gauge itself, a bitmap that will cover the original VSI and some simple instructions (with the lines that need to be added to the panel.cfg file).

Once downloaded, all one needs to do is:

--Add the gauge itself to the main FS9 gauges folder

--Add the new .bmp to the aircraft panel folder

--Add some lines to the panel.cfg file

--Download any other files like "FSUIPC" that the TCAS needs to operate correctly, and installing it wherever it needs to go (modules folder in this case).

See, piece of cake.

[ray]

Hi all,

The idea of having an "upgraded" or modernized panel for either a 707 or DC-8 series for me is exciting. Cargo Carriers that own and currently operate older jets I would assume have modernized them to be FAA approved for current operation (like hush kits and some electronics on the flight deck main panel). I believe from some of the threads here there is some potential "modernized" classic aircraft getting ready to be offered (such as a 707 with winglets and another one that is available as a modern day charter ??)?

In reading this thread it looks like a partial panel upgrade could become a reality without much difficulty on the part of individuals like George and Harerton. If this was kept as an "option" for us to select that would be great! Individuals could select classic aircraft that would be updated and others that are equipped as were in the 60's and stay true to your purpose as a classic jet website. Just my simple opinion for whatever it is worth.

Ray Mengel
Spokane, WA

[chris]

If you want to get technical, these jets were not really considered "historic" when they were new, but rather "new-fangled vacuum cleaners". They have only become historic now that they've been replaced by newer aircraft (a couple times over) in this modern age. Only now that they have become classified as "dinosaurs", or "pre-historic", can we truly appreciate their accomplishments and role in history. Therefore, would it not be fitting to pay as much attention to the few that have soldiered on, and are STILL flying, just as much as the ones that were flying back then? If this is not the case, then there should be no "fake liveries" section or any currently-in-use liveries anywhere on HJG. But there are.

[meekg]

As a matter of fact these airplanes are flying up to this day with all modification to comply with today's requirements (TCAS, GPSs and RVSM as far as I know are not uncommon on there planes).
Although this is a group of historic airplanes aficionados our beloved airplanes still fly in the virtual sky as well and I specifically opened my own VA out of my DC-8 passion.
However after an initial flop I had to get some more modern airplane in order to keep my VA running (yep... it simulates financial progress too).
Up to this day I have 2 DC-8 (-63F and -73F) that don't fly much.
Where do all this historic simmers fly? Don't they enjoy flying the classics on online networks and race with all those 747-400 and 767s?
Hope to have some of you DC8ers to join soon.

Best regards

Michele Galmozzi

www.transcargovirtual.com

[raven]

I think we should have a whole variety I mean they started with the whiskey compass and now we have this:

http://usflight decks.com/Cargo/RC-135V%20Rivet%20Joint%20glass.JPG

I prefer the new stuff myself

[Harerton Dourado - HJG]

Hi Raven,

Are you sure this link is correct? It's not working here.

Thanks