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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 14, 2011 21:11:22 GMT
I´m in a rush to reply here Herman .... got 3 flight sectors (totalling 23 hours flying time) over some 30 hours, or so, in front of me ;D ANYWAY .... I don´t think either of us are really in a position to imply the story is false or true. I´ve certainly never tried to .... and have only ever related this particular story (from memory .... since I don´t actually have the book with me on this trip) as a matter of interest only .... and in doing so only quoted what was apparently done. I don´t think FS is the appropriate environment within which to try´n put such claims to the test .... simply because there´s so many factors in regard to realworld aviation physics which simply can´t be replicated within FS due to limitations of the host program itself .... and .... whilst our FDE´s are good .... "VERY GOOD" in fact .... I´ve never ever referred to them as being absolutely perfect. That´s my last comment on this particular subject .... hopefully ! ;D Mark C BOG/COL
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Post by Herman on Jun 14, 2011 21:13:34 GMT
Further to my comments from above posts, I really would like to hear from a real world airline pilot regarding this issue...so how about it....skyking and others.
Mark, I do have several books from the "Great Airliners" series....Boeing 707\720 and DC-8, however, I was never able to get the CV880\990. I'll have a look in our BC Aviation Museum Library. Perhaps there is a copy there.
Herman
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 15, 2011 0:17:10 GMT
Just waiting to "GO" now .... leave Colombia I love this place ! That book is well worth the investment Herman ! You´ll love it .... if you can find a copy ! I actually met Jon PROCTOR, the author, in AKL, during the mid 1980´s. We had a great yard about TWA .... and "CONVAIR 880´s and 990´s" in particular .... long before I ever developed, o wever knew I´d develop a virtual connection with these aircraft through FS. Funny how things sometimes seem to start falling into place .... long before any association/connection with something is ever realised. Mark C BOG/COL
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Post by walterleo on Jun 15, 2011 17:06:01 GMT
Pilots and hunters tales: Take it with a grain of salt! The story about blasting at the barber pole through the FAF is nice, but the numbers are a bit exaggerated: Lets take a standard ILS you intercept the GS around 7 DME out. I tried (CV 990A) starting from 330 kts from 15 DME out at 12 DME power off air-brake at 250 kts gear down at 220 kts starting to lower flaps at 7 DME with flaps 35 starting descent at 160 kts full flaps 150 kts 90% power and a nice uneventful landing. Lets say in 6 miles you can decelerate to approach speed, IF the real thing has air-brakes as effective as the model (which often is not the case!). Doing all that at the GS haven knows if even in the 60s a FAA inspector would have tolerated that, low drag low power approaches were still not in use. Kind regards and a good flight to Mark Walter
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Post by skyking on Jun 15, 2011 18:21:59 GMT
Well, I never flew any Convairs, and don't know if I can add much to what has already been posted, but we always heard they were the fastest airliners.....OVER THE FENCE. That is their approach speeds were much higher than similar jets such as the 707 and DC-8. That, as Mark said would result in a slightly different view out the front window if flown correctly. 'Course you can always adjust your "seat" as others have said with the Shift key and others.
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Post by Herman on Jun 15, 2011 23:05:07 GMT
Thank you Captain for your reply.
I think we all seem to be in agreement that the CV880's and 990's were much faster in the cruise phase and also for approacches and landing.
However, my issue is.... can one believe the Delta AL pilots story to be factual or is it somewhat exaggerated ie. "the airspeed needle almost at the baberpole at the middle marker".
At sea level that would be around 385knts. indicated.
I just find it a bit hard to believe that a safe landing could be accomplished unless the landing was made at an airfield with a very,very long runway.
Would you be able to do it with a DC-8???
Herman
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Post by skyking on Jun 16, 2011 1:49:16 GMT
I'm sure that was just a "slight" exageration because they were faster during approach. I wouldn't want to try it in an 8.
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Post by Herman on Jun 16, 2011 22:12:38 GMT
I was fortunate enough to locate a copy of Jon Proctor's book "The Convair 880\990" in our museum library.
Referring back to the Delta AL pilots article "A Tribute To The 880" here is what he wrote, and I quote from the book.
"The 880 also enjoyed certain other dubious distinctions. What other aircraft in history ever entered the "downwind leg" at a major airport "on the barberpole" (as fast as it could go), crossed the "outer marker" inbound at 250 knots airspeed, and made a perfectly normal landing"- with a horrified FAA inspector on board."
Under those conditions, I believe that it would be possible to perform a safe landing.
Herman
Now
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 19, 2011 2:35:04 GMT
Glad you hot the book Herman ! I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Quoting from "MEMORY" (because I didn't have my copy of that book with me in Colombia) .... it looks like I "screwed-up" .... in that it was during the "downwind league and prior to the Outer (rather than the Middle) Marker" that the referenced high-speed CV880 approach was made Sorry about that ;D Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by Herman on Jun 19, 2011 3:54:11 GMT
No problem Mark, and no need to appologize.
Hope you had a pleasant trip back to NZ.
Herman
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 19, 2011 4:45:09 GMT
"HASSELS" all the way Herman ;D .... but .... of the type for which nobody was to blame We were well over1 hour late getting out of BOG because the previous evenings AA service to there had got in late and the crew was unable to get their mandatory crew rest prior to rolling the next day .... consequently I missed my AA MIA/LAX connection at MIA. AA then rebooked me on their early evening MIA/LAX service .... with sufficient time still remaining at LAX in order to connect with my QF LAX/AKL service .... only upon arriving at LAX I suddenly learned that this service had been "CANCELLED" .... as had all QF AKL/LAX/LAX services during the previous consecutive 4 days .... due to the intrusion of volcanic ash into NZ airspace. This had not been communicated to me earlier that day by AA at either at BOG or MIA. At LAX QF kindly booked me into the HILTON HOTEL LAX .... with all expenses (except drinkie-poo's ) paid for by the airline The QF LAX/AKL service did operate the following evening though .... with me aboard .... BUT .... around 5 hours out of LAX, and a wee way north of the Equatorial line, the flight started to get "AS R----O----U----G----H A----S B----L----O----O----D----Y GUTS" ;D (espcially back in row 58 where I was seated) .... but .... other than this I guess it was all good fun Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by skyking on Jun 19, 2011 12:55:38 GMT
Got time to spare.....go by air !! ;D Better take a boat next time, Mark !!
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Post by Herman on Jun 19, 2011 15:04:05 GMT
It sounds to me that your flight back to NZ was far from being pleasant.
Being couped up in an airplane for hours is never a pleasant experience, unless you can get a few hours of shut-eye,which for me always seems difficult, and I am not a nervous flyer.
I recall hearing about a vulcanic eruption but I don't recall where it occurred.
Herman
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Post by walterleo on Jun 19, 2011 16:43:04 GMT
It was in Chile!
Walter
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jun 19, 2011 20:25:16 GMT
Missing flights "can be" fun .... especially when it's by no means your own fault Staying at the HILTON HOTEL .... with all meals and expenses paid for (without drinks though ) .... is "a hell of a life" too And as for severe turbulence (doesn't bother me in the very least .... WELL .... there's nothing like good old bit of decent "Rock'N'Roll" aye ;D It was all "FUN" .... really Herman ! I actually voluntered to stand down further at LAX .... should it have helped the overload situation in terms of maybe assisting someone else beingable getting back home and whom might have had more pressing need to get back home than I did, but, as things worked out, this wasn't necessary. "YES" it was .... but ... the volcaic ash cloud extended right on over into NZ and the Pacific region .... and at very high altitudes too .... hence the number of flight cancellations in regard to both trans-Tasman, and trans-Pacific services to and from NZ over the past several days .... and which is what I got caught up in too. Mark C AKL/NZ
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