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Post by mikemoir on Sept 22, 2012 20:00:32 GMT
I have the new Jon Murchison BAe 146-300 in Aer Lingus colors and the Targan Unutmaz panel. All is perfect until I level off at, say 6000ft, 220kt when the VSI starts to wander up and down and in desperation I have to disconnect altitude hold. Suspecting not enough lift, because the aircraft tends to sink and the autopilot increases thrust, overshoots the altitude then the oscillations start. I increased cruise_lift_scalar 1.360 -->1.500-->2.000 but no better. Anybody else seen this? What should I do??  |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Sept 22, 2012 21:03:29 GMT
Although I'm not so intimately familiar with the ARNZ BAe 146-300/RJ100 simulation in comparison with other simulations hosted by HJG .... I'm sufficiently familiar with it to sday that I've never seen what, you say, you're experiencing .... when this particular simulation with the Mathias LEIBRECT BAe 146-300 panel which also hosted by HJG.
You say you're using the ARNZ/HJG hosted BAe 146-300/RJ-100 .... which, I assume, you're also using with the HJG supplied FDE .... BUT ..... you also state that you're using another panel option .... and it's in regard to this "latter point" that you're particular issue "MAY POSSIBLY" be based.
It could possibly be .... that something within the panel/gauge suite of this "other panel option" may be incompatible with the HJG supplied BAe 146-300/RJ100 FDE. This "can happen" .... sometimes. HOWEVER .... because this other panel option isn't an HJG production/offering we don't/can't very well provide support for it .... unfortunately
Having said that though (above) I can offer the following suggestions for you to considser .... though I don't think they'll make any difference ....
Such AP controlled flight/cruise issues don't, normally, start to occur within FS until after FL250 .... and they get progrerssively worse above this particular altitude. Below this altitude it's extremly rare, but, such oscillations during AP controlled cruise can also be caused be caused by capturing any target altitude "too abruptly" .... flying too fast .... flying too high and too heavy .... and sometimes even as a result of using FS time compression in order to shorten any long flight too. Try reducing your ROC/ROD (at least) to less than 1000 FPM within the last 1000 FT of climb to any target altitude .... then less than 500 FPM within the last 500 FT of climb to any target altitude .... and then less than 200 FPM during the last 1000 FT of climbt to any target altitude .... which should ensure a very smooth altitude capture .... at least.
Again .... I've not seen/experienced this issue, you say you're experiencing, using the HJG supplied FDE and BAe 146-300 panel combination.
From my experience .... adjusting CLS values within any CFG won't assist your particular/such an issue.
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by mikemoir on Sept 23, 2012 15:20:51 GMT
Thanks for your comments. I should have said that climbing to cruise altitude is no problem, the oscillation happens when descending to the cleared altitude before approach. I will first try descending at a lower ROD. If that fails I'll download the Lieberecht panel. For interest, the VSI gauge in the Unutmaz panel is FabRJ_vsi, and (strangely) that panel is OK with the older Jon Murchison BAe 146-300!
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Sept 23, 2012 21:04:11 GMT
That "does" interest me .... because the ARNZ BAe 146-300/RJ00(the version offered by HJG) has "NOT" undergone any FDE or panel/gauge modifications which could, potentially, affect the stability of AP controlled flight.
Issues, suxh as these, can, sometimes, be realized "on some systems only", but, not on others generally .... as has been reported, occasionally (rarely though), in regard to 1 or 2 other simulations in the past .... and for which the common denominator (the causative or contributing factor) has yet to be properly identified.
You should be OK with the recommended LEIBRECHT BAe 146-300 panel though .... the HJG hosted version of it at least.
FYI .... I've checked this particular panel very early this morning (first time I've actually flown it since HJG released it). It "IS" quite a "complex panel" .... but .... like everything of a complex .... once it's understood (particularly the AP Mode System which may require a little reading/study of the accompanying manual on the part of some End Users) it's usually no longer complex at all and is "quite a pleasure" to fly in FS. In fact having done so, myself, this morning .... despite being so engrossed with other HJG and non-HJG FS development projects, as time permits, I'd actually forgotten what a joy this simulation was/"IS" to fly.
ANYWAY .... having just run this particular panel using the current version HJG FDE .... and for the benefit of this thread .... I can report/confirm as follows ....
No oscillation, whatsoever, was experienced (by me) during high or low altitude AP controlled level cruise. During my climb to FL310 .... I purposely step climbed .... first to FL150 .... then FL250 .... and then FL270 .... before finally settling into high speed AP controlled cruise at FL310. During each step of my climb to cruising altitude the simulation was set up in AP controlled level flight for several minutes .... using the AP Altitude Capture Mode.... and was observed to remain "perfectly stable" at each flight level. The same was true in reverse and during descent also .... again descending in steps .... leveling of first at FL250 .... then FL170 .... then FL100 .... once again using Auto Altitude Capture Mode all the way down .... and with "perfectly stable" AP controlled cruise upon each altitude levell off. Each altitude capture was met with "a very slight nod" (the simulation drifting fractionally below .... then fractionally above ... before capturing and maintaining the selected target altitude and with perfectly stable flight results .... BUT .... there was "no sustained/continuod oscillation". The slight "nod", that was observed, "IS" a norma/typical FS response/observation with some aircraft panel AP's/simulations.
Your experience with this LEIBREHT BAe 148-300 panel (should you decide to use it) should mirror that of my own and as described above.
JUST QUICKLY ALSO ....
If using any ARNZ BAe 146-300/RJ100 aircraft with the recommended LEIBRECHT panel .... be aware that upon selecting any such aircraft/panel combination within the FS2004 Aircraft Selection Menu .... it "does" take up to a minute or so to load everything (both the model, and panel, are very complex) .... during which time the aircraft preview animation will stop revolving. Some may think FS has frozen/locked up durin this process, but, it hasn't. "Let it continue loading" .... and it "WILL" load fine. The actual time required to load the simulation completly will vary according to system processing resources. The same is true in reverse also .... when exiting any FS session after having used any such aircraft/panel combination .... it, similarly, taking up to a minute or so to exit back to the FS Aircraft Selection Menu. "THIS IS ALL PERFECTLY NORMAL".
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by mikemoir on Sept 24, 2012 15:15:22 GMT
Mark C
Many thanks for your additional comments and for taking the time to try the BAe 146-300 again! I did try to reduce the ROD last night, but to no avail - the oscillations get wilder and I would have crashed if I hadn't switched off the autopilot. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the aircraft is easier than many jets to fly and land manually. The older Jon Murchison BAe 146-300 is in British Airways colours and was downloaded from Avsim.com.
I'm off on holiday for 2 weeks now but will try the Lieberecht panel on my return. I think I was put off by the complex-sounding panel and opted for a simpler one from Flightsim.com. I know that some of my aircraft/panel combinations take a while to load.
Thanks again
Mike
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Sept 24, 2012 20:28:29 GMT
I'm pretty sure your experience might relate to some degree of incompatibility between "your panel of choice" (possibly it's AP gauge programming) and our FDE since the 2 were never intended to be used together (so far as I know) .... and since I can't replicate any problem using the LEIBRECHT panel/gauge suite and HJG offered FDE. It's also possible something on your PC might be causing your problem too .... such cases are rare, but, can, and do, happen. We've seen some instances of this (which can be extremely difficult to troubleshoot given the variation which exists among PC systems/configurations today) in the past .... but .... never in regard this particular aircraft type/simulation as offered by HJG Doing my own 1 hour test flight (at 05:00 yesterday   morning and before the start of my typically busy business day) reminded me that although the LEIBRECHT panel is complex .... it's not so complex that it becomes an imposition, upon the End User, to have to learn before they can master it properly (I managed to figure it all our "by feel" in less than 15 minutes, but, I do tend to be like that in regard to technical matters). I think most folk are possibly alarmed/catapulted into a false sense of insecurity/panic mode when they see the 100 (+) page manual (which is a good thing because it's "thorough") .... BUT .... if one has good/sound basic technical knowledge .... particularly in regard to how BAe 146/ARJ aircraft (jet aircraft generally) are flown .... and what stands them each apart .... AND .... if one can also figure out how to use the Center Pedestal located AP system and its Main Panel located mode control system .... then this panel (like any other) quickly becomes "VERY EASY" to use/master .... and more-so than some folk might appreciate. This basic principle applies to any FS panel and regardless of its apparent level of complexity .... of course  Once learned .... and remembered .... then never (usually) forgotten. In cases of misunderstanding/misguidance .... WELL .... that's what these forums are (should be) intended for  Once again ....given my test flight of yesterday morning I could, actually, start to like this aircraft and maybe fly it a bit more between my other many private projects. Mark C AKL/NZ |
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morning and before the start of my typically busy business day) reminded me that although the LEIBRECHT panel is complex .... it's not so complex that it becomes an imposition, upon the End User, to have to learn before they can master it properly (I managed to figure it all our "by feel" in less than 15 minutes, but, I do tend to be like that in regard to technical matters). I think most folk are possibly alarmed/catapulted into a false sense of insecurity/panic mode when they see the 100 (+) page manual (which is a good thing because it's "thorough") .... BUT .... if one has good/sound basic technical knowledge .... particularly in regard to how BAe 146/ARJ aircraft (jet aircraft generally) are flown .... and what stands them each apart .... AND .... if one can also figure out how to use the Center Pedestal located AP system and its Main Panel located mode control system .... then this panel (like any other) quickly becomes "VERY EASY" to use/master .... and more-so than some folk might appreciate.
