Help with Basics of Flight Dynamics Needed

[thrillsandchills]

Is there anyone out there that flys the Props?

I can Take off alright. But I can't keep a steady climb say 1200 fpm. Same applies with my descents; or properly lean the engine. The worst is leveling off.

Rod M. (the instructor in FS9 and FSX) said basically, set your pitch to the airspeed you want, use power next, then trim out the aircraft. You'll know trimmed out when you loose all the pressure in the yoke, (I have a CH Eclipse. Would it help to get the Saitek and pedals? )

But the good news is: yesterday, I was able to keep my IAS constant throughout the flight

I can tell you three things: a) It's easier said than done; and b) If it looks easy, its not.

And c) The lesson on Climbs and Descents I took. It included the using the trim wheel. However, on MY setup, with FS9 installed, I never was taught about the trim wheel because the lesson stalled out. You're told to press "P" to give your mind a rest before getting started on the trim wheel. I did. For all intents and purposes, the lesson ended there; because when I pressed "p" again, there wasn't any audio, except for the running of the engine.

So, if you guys could give me some help on all this I'd appreciate it.

Thrills And Chills

[walterleo]

Hi:

The advice Rod gave you is sound, but in some FS- "airplanes" the trim is so delicate, that its very difficult to bring the airplane in such a steady state of flight that you can leave the airplane to its own hands off.

The cure could be: try other sensitivities for trim or look around for an airplane which flies better (=steadier!).

P-mode helps nothing in trimming. Knowing trim and power values for certain speeds can help but you have to research them before. Changing trim should be done in small increments only. Even in simulation as trim is potentially a very powerful control, which can spoil the control-ability.

Walter

[Herman]

If you are looking for information on flying the propliners,both piston and turboprops, please refer to www.calclassic a web site dedicated to th eearly propliners. The hav e good information and tutorials on the subject.

Herman

[Herman]

If you are looking for information on flying the propliners,both piston and turboprops, please refer to www.calclassic a web site dedicated to th eearly propliners. The hav e good information and tutorials on the subject.

Herman

[aeroart]

If you think your pitch and elevator controls are too touchy, you can reduce their sensitivty in the [flight_tuning] section of the aircraft.cfg file.

Before you make any changes, make a copy of the cfg file, just in case.

When you find that section, look for two lines:
elevator_effectiveness=1.00
elevator_trim-effectiveness=1.00

You can reduce the value at the end of each line to reduce their sensitivity. Try one at at time. Your first try might look like this:
elevator_effectiveness=0.80 //1.00
elevator_trim-effectiveness=1.00

Save the value the value you're replacing after two slashes as a reminder of your last setting. Save the file, then reload the airplane to make the new setting take effect. Then fly it to see if you like it better. Repeat, as necessary.

Art

[thrillsandchills]

Thanks for the idea...

[walterleo]

Hi:

The FLIGHTTUNING section can be a field for many frustrations. As the flying qualities in FS as in a real plane are the result of various factors changing one can lead to surprising results in others: Changing elevator and or trim effectivness can lead to an airplane you can not land without crash or making turns without altitude loss impossible. I would advise to try first the sensitivy menue of FS joystick before starting "open hart operations" in the FLIGHT-TUNING section of the airplane.cfg as the designer of your simulated airplane experimented with the flying qualities of his new baby and tried to give us an "simplane" which resembles more or less the real thing.

Beeing a flightsimmer from the start of MS FS and once a real pilot I nearly never touched the "FLIGHT-TUNING" section, instead I tried to change the FS joystick settings or sensitivies. BUT in most cases some handflying exercises teach the right touch on the controls as in most cases at fault isnt the airplane but "pilot induced oscillations". Even after a break in flying an "airplane" you have"flown" various times one has to start again with some handflown circuits around your favorite "airport" to get the feel again.

Kind regards

Walter

[Alejandro]

Probably you are overcompensating. When the plane is climbing too much and you compensate with the trim or joystich, the plane doesn't remains leveled. It allways goes a bit too down, later goes a bit too up again and finally levels. But if you compensate for up, then compensate for down, then again for up... you'll end with a bunch o very sick passengers.

Try to compensate once and leave it alone for a while until it stabilices

[aeroart]

The key to trimming an airplane is to hold the pitch attitude you want with a light touch on the yoke/stick. If you are holding "up" pressure to maintain the desired pitch attitude, trim nose-up to lighten or eliminate the nose-down pressure. Do the opposite if you feel nose-down pressure.

If the airpseed is changing, like when you're leveling off from a climb, the trim requirements will change as the airspeed changes. Trim as mentioned above to reduce the pressure. When the airspeed stabilizes, set the power to cruise, then do the final trim to eliminate the pressure. You will need to retrim now and then to maintain level flight.

The other key is don't fly the airplane with the trim. Put it where you want it with the yoke/stick, then trim off the pressure.

Art

[Mike Monce - HJG]

"I would advise to try first the sensitivy menue of FS joystick before starting "open hart operations" in the FLIGHT-TUNING section of the airplane.cfg as the designer of your simulated airplane experimented with the flying qualities of his new baby and tried to give us an "simplane" which resembles more or less the real thing. "

Walter,

You'd be surprised how, to use Mark's phrase, "buggered up" a lot of FDE's are that people put out.

Mark and I have found that first off the Weight and Balance section of the cfg file is usually in great need of work. Then we try adjustments to the flight tuning section. Next, aircraft geometry. Flaps get their own treatment depending on the To/approach characteristics. Lastly, it is sometimes necessary to delve into the air file directly.

If the FDE is done properly you should not, in my opinion, need to adjust any of your FS hardware sensitivities.

Mike

[walterleo]

Hi Mike:

I was not talking of people like you, who know what they are doing... And Thanks Heaven I tumbled early over russian simulations like the Tu-154 which are the work of a FDE Genius aka "Tendercat". BUT learning to fly a simulated airplane while fiddling around with Flitetuning makes an nearly impossibel task. FS joystick sensitivities can be a problem if you are using nonstandart joysticks. But as I tried to explain at the end of my post: Most often its not the arrow but the indian to blame.

Kind regards

Walter

[+mrfaosfx]

in real life instruction, you are taught that airspeed is altitute and pitch is airspeed. the same applies to props, to level off you must anticipate the arrival of your next flight level and know what speed you will maintain during that proccess and adjust throttle as necessary to maintain altitude.

[garryrussell]

1,200 sounds a high RoC for some propeliners.

Especially early ones

You should not be keen to change the dunamics if you have a problem as I suspect you have the problem???

The old propliners were very hard work compared to modern JetLiners.

Soory...not meaning to sound cheeky, once the tricks for the old stuff is learned then it will be a lot more fun

[walterleo]

Hi Rafael:

Seems something in your flight training was non-standard:

Speed, attitude, power and altitude are interrelated. A certain speed can be maintained by attitude and power without altitude change, you can trade speed for altitude or gain speed loosing altitude at the same power setting. Beginners as this tread is talking about are instructed to watch attitude, altitude, speed and power. To climb: raise the nose to say 5 deg and increase power some percents and relief the pressure on the controls by trim. To go down the reverse. You are given a certain speed for optimal climb and one for safe descent. The values depend on the airplane flown.
Think one should not make the beginning of mastering the art of flying more difficult as it already is.

Kind regards

Walter

[Mike Monce - HJG]

garryrussell,

agreed on that with regard propliners. I really like calclassic, but some of their planes act more like P51's than an old DC6 in terms of ROC. If you look at the cfg file, they have the Oswald efficiency fact sometimes set at .8, or higher (it's the parameter which sets how efficient the wing is in producing lift to drag). The theoretical max is around .85, and modern wings are around .8. those old NACA wings on propliners should be around .7, or even lower.

Mike