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Post by ram1220 on Jul 7, 2014 14:12:37 GMT
Can someone who is using the HJG supplied L1011-250 with the proper panel tell me what view settings you are using? I am talking about the seat height and the view distance out the cockpit window. I love this plane but I can't seem to find the correct set up. Either the nose always appears too high or too low. I don't have this problem with the B727, DC9, Caravelle, or any other aircraft I fly. I am using FS9. I do know how to fly an approach including the glideslope, etc. But for some reason I just can't find the right "looking" view. Thanks.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 7, 2014 23:56:35 GMT
I'll attempt to answer this "GENERALLY" rather than specifically ....  There shouldn't be any particular problem .... at least none that I'm personally aware of/experienced at least. Those using FSX .... need to be sure that they've activated the "FSX SPECIFIC" PANEL.CFG file and aren't inadvertently using the default activated FS2004 version. Failure to ensure this probably will result in unatural view related issues. In "FS2004" (dunno if this advice works in FSX though), and whilst on the ground, I use (if I ever decide to use it at all .... and I don't believe I have, at all, in the case of these L1011 panels) either SHIFT ENTER and/or SHIFT BACKSPACE keyboard commands in order to raise/lower the seat/line of sight view/horizon position .... per only 1 tap/increment of either though or one could end up staring blankly at the concrete ahead of/below them  "IF" one's experiencing view problems in the air (like eye-balling the RWY during any approach to landing for example) .... THEN .... it must first be appreciated that L1011's, like A300B's and DC10's also, fly approaches to landing with a fairly high nose-up/AI pitch attitude. Using any 2D panel this naturally high angle of attack does, unavoidably, result in less visibilty of the approaching RWY .... in fact it will probably, be obscured, if not remaining "only just visible" above the very top of the panel below the windshield, until a fairly late stage of the approach to landing .... usually until the last 7-5 miles DME from my personal experience, but, the supplied panel gauge information is more than adequate to tell one all that needs to be known in order to be reassured about the aliignment and progress toward any RWY. "THIS" .... unfortunately .... is one of the (few) limitations associated with using any 2D panel .... and especially in the case of any aircraft type/simulation which flies in this particular manner (perfectly normal though) due to it's built-in axis of view. VC panels don't generally result in such issues of course, but, we/HJG can't provide these. It's in these particular 2D panel related situations that the use of either the SHIFT ENTER and/or SHIFT BACKSPACE keyboard commands may/will help .... "IF" one feels they really need to be able to see a bit more of whatever's ahead of/below/ or approaching them. Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by ram1220 on Jul 8, 2014 14:37:55 GMT
So no one can tell me their settings for this aircraft? I understand all that you said Mark. But all I needed were settings that other users have.
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Post by CORLL ONE on Jul 8, 2014 18:59:38 GMT
I hit Shift+Enter one time once I reach cruise altitude. Just my personal preference. I don't mess with the view distance.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 8, 2014 21:20:43 GMT
"PRECISELY" ....  That's all I've ever done too .... and all I believe ever needs being done in the even that anyone feels they need to make any view related adjustment/s at all. It "IS".... by fay .... the most "simple" solution Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by ram1220 on Jul 9, 2014 14:56:12 GMT
I hit Shift+Enter one time once I reach cruise altitude. Just my personal preference. I don't mess with the view distance. Thank you. I have done that for cruising. But I just can not get a view that looks right on final approach and landing. I don't always like to use the auto pilot. I like to hand fly my finals and landings. Maybe the L1011 was just built this way. But I just can't find the view that looks right to me. I'll probably just ditch the L1011 and stick with the HJG 727 and DC9's. |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 9, 2014 21:26:52 GMT
That'd be "A REAL SHAME" .... because we've got these L1011 simulations flying as real as "we can" .... given our own personal abilities and within the bounderies of certain FS limitations too of course. Approaches to landing .... using these L1011 simulations .... should be flown either "fully automatically" (using the new panels built-in AP-AL/auto-land mode which will fly any ILS/GS coupled approach, flare, disengage the AT, and then land the simulation "completely automatically") .... OR ALTERNATIVELY .... flown using the new panels AP-APR mode (which will similarly fly any ILS/GS coupled approach "automatically", but then, require one to manually disengage the AP from around 200FT, then manually disengage the AT from around 100FT, and then manually flare and land the simulation from around 50FT). This .... incidentally .... is the type of aviation technology that the L1011 represented. I don't think it would be normal (although it can be done) for L1011's to fly approaches to landing "fully manually". In respect of the L1011's high angle of attack/nose-up AI pitch attitude during approaches to landing .... this is "quite normal" and a characteristic of these aircraft as well as the A300B and DC10 too .... as I mentioned earlier/above. The following image represents what I regard as being "A PERFECTLY NORMAL" 2D panel view of the RWY, during an ILS/GS auto-approach to landing, and from around 2 miles (DME) from the RWY threshold .... and more importantly without any POV/horizon line adjustment using the afore-mentioned SHIFT ENTER and/or SHIFT BACKSPACE keyboard commands. "THIS" is what one should be seeing ....  The following image represents what would/should be seen using this 2D panel during any ILS/GS auto-approach to landing, and similarly from around 2 miles (DME) from the RWY threshold .... BUT .... using 1 (only) tap of the SHIFT ENTER keyboard commands in order to slightly elevate the POV/horizon line above the main panel for slightly better viewing ....  "IF" .... you're not seeing anything like this, or are, perhaps, loosing all view of the RWY (uing these 2D panels one probably won't begin to see the RWY clearly until around 7 to 5 miles DME from the RWY threshold anyway .... thereby forcing one to rely upon ones instrument indications in regard to allignment as distance to run whilst still a good way out) .... THEN .... that would indicate, to me, that you're possibly flying your approaches to landing either too slowly, or, too heavy, or "both" .... as both of these condition will cause the nose to drift even higher .... resulting in even less view, or obliteration from view, of any approaching RWY. Airspeed during any approach to landing in FS is "CRITICAL" .... as is weight also. One shouldn't be landing with in excess of around 20% to 25% total fuel remaining per each tank. If you consider it might help you .... I've draughted a fairly lengthy, but, thorough tutorial (as part of my L1011 PANEL INSTALLATION & HANDLING NOTES postings/the forum based HJG L1011 manual) in regard to how to "best" fly these L1011 simulations .... and which covers approach to landing procedures. See either section "4.06" and/or section "4.06-A" per the following link .... tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thread/3888/l1011-tristar-panel-installation-handling2 different procedures are explained there-in. 1 for a "fully-automatic" hands off ILS/GS coupled auro-approach to landing using the AP A/L/auto-land mode .... and the other for an "automatic" ILS/GS coupled auto-approach to landing using the AP APR/approach mode Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by Herman on Jul 10, 2014 15:33:21 GMT
Perhaps not exactly what you are looking for, but I have enclosed alink to one of my youtube videos which shows a flight deck view of an Air Canada L1011 on approach to CYVR.
The flight deck view starts at about the 6 min. mark and is shot about pilots eye view, and as you can see, the pilots eye level is a fair bit above the panel, so I think what you need to do is what has been suggested by the above commentators.
Hope this helps.
Herman
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Post by Falcon on Jul 10, 2014 19:07:29 GMT
I know nothing about FS9 (2004) as I use FSX. It appears the key strokes do the same. In FSX the Shift + Enter or Backspace moves the eye point back and forward. I use Ctrl + Q to lower eyepoint, and Shift + Ctrl + Q to raise. Is that what you are looking for ram1220? Again maybe it is different in fs9.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 10, 2014 21:15:36 GMT
The thing is though .... "THAT" (the POV evident in the video) .... the "true sort of pilots I perspective" (from the flightdeck to the outside world environment) .... isn't so easily replicated in " 2D type FS panels". It "IS" more successfully represented in "VC type FS panels" though .... because of their more natural pilots eye perspective view toward the virtual outside environment. Using 2D FS panels .... which are all HJG offers (with the exception of the VC which accompanies the FSFT CONCORDE) .... one can really only raise/lower the seat view, using those SHIFT ENTER and SHIFT BACKSPACE keyboard commands, as many time as is necesary, until one acieves the view perspective they're comfortable with .... albeit for a less natural pilots eye perspective view. Hitting SHIFT ENTER (to raise the seat view/horizon line) too many times though "WILL" result in one staring at an abnormal amount of virtual airport real estate/concrete or landcape scenery ahead of and/or below the simulation "THIS" .... unfortunately .... is one of (if not the only) major drawback to using 2D type FS panels .... particularly in regard to those aircraft which fly approaches to landing with a fairly high angle of attack and which does .... regrettably .... result in a slightly more rstricted pilots eye view of the virtual outside envirionment during this particular phase of flight in particular. HOWEVER .... as I've attempted to explain and tried to demonstrate using my own screenshot imagey above .... so long as one flies approaches to landing "at the right weight" (no more than 20-25% total fuel remaining .... even with a full payload) and "at the right airspeed" too (full flaps and 140 KTS .... reducing to 138 KTS prior to actually landing .... for the L1011's ), then, one shouldn't experience any major problem/s at all. I do feel that a lot of POV related issues are the result of folk tending land either too heavy and/or too slowly .... and which "WILL" have an adverse affect .... paricularly in regard to the virtual line of signt view perspective. In the absence of anyone elses input (for comparison) I don't, really, think there's anything further I can add to this thread Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by ram1220 on Jul 11, 2014 14:58:48 GMT
Thanks for all of the replies. For now I have parked the L1011. I just can't find the right view that I am comfortable with. To me the L1011 just doesn't look right.The B727 also has a high nose up attitude during approach and I do not have a problem hand flying that on approach and landing. To me it's just not worth the trouble anymore to try and figure it out. I will stick with the B727, DC9, and B707. Thanks again.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 11, 2014 21:23:18 GMT
"THAT'S A SHAME" .... but .... your decision is respected of course Incidentally .... the B727 .... and aircraft like the B707 and DC9 too .... all sit much lower to the ground (with quite a different pilots eye perspective toward the outsreide environnment .... is what I'm implying) .... BUT MORE IMPORTANLY .... these aircraft "DO NOT" apptroach to land at nearly the same AI pitch/nose up pitch attitude as aircraft like the A300B, DC10, and L1011 .... and some others. Since their are no view adjustment settings as such(apart from the common ones I've repeated) ....I do still think that airspeed and weight are probably the principle cause of your issue (in fact I wish you'd try'n persist/experiment in this particular respect) .... BUT HEY .... it's your choice/decision .... and as I've said above your choice/decision is "respected" Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by ram1220 on Jul 12, 2014 15:07:06 GMT
Mark I used to watch Braniff 727's coming into DFW all the time. They did approach and touch down with a nose high attitude.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 12, 2014 22:27:53 GMT
I didn't say they didn't What I actually said (as has now been stressed/underligned below) was .... It's the "L1011's" classic/characteristic nose-high approach to landing attitude (in particular) upon which I was focussing primarily .... for reasons referenced earlier within this thread and in regard to your, apparent issue, but which, beyond the advice I've so far provided, is one that I simply can't replicate nor identify anything of concern with Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by Herman on Jul 14, 2014 15:52:35 GMT
I usually don't fly the wide bodies but I was kind of interested in this particular problem that Ram1220 was having. Basically my out come of a couple of test flights were the same as those already mentioned by Mark. Below are also a few of my own images. I flew the 1011 in both FS9 and FSX and both were pretty much the same. I did not make any adjustments to the seat eye levels. I used a 25% fuel tank loading and an initial approach speed of 160knts. to the outer marker of the ILS, and then reduced to 148kts. on short final. This shot shows me on short final using FS9. Note the approach attitude.  Flight Deck view.  Landing attitude.  FSX views.    So Ram1220...... as you can see, it is possible to fly a good approach and landing with this HJG 1011 model so please try and use the advice given by Mark. |
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