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Post by M.I.B. on Apr 5, 2017 18:45:56 GMT
WOW, I never imagined the BAe 146/Avro RJ package would ever be completed. This is definitely one of the most important updates/expansions in HJG's history. Totally unexpected, can't thank enough everyone involved! There's only one tiny thingie that confuses me right now, as opposed to the other HJG birds. If I want to perform a proper cold and dark start-up, precisely which scenario of the ones described here should I follow, or in what order? Because, as opposed to other HJG aircraft, the different start-up scenarios ("Cold and Dark", "Default engines running" etc) do not seem to be complete, ready to be followed as stand-alone checklists, they seem to me to need one another, and I don't quite understand which scenario I should begin with, and which one should I continue with, if I want to perform a cold and dark start-up. My guess is that I should begin with the beginning of "PANEL/SYSTEMS CONFIGURATION - DEFAULT ENGINES STARTED SCENARIO", where it says to start the sim with the default Cessna and don't touch anything in its cockpit, then select the BAe/Avro of my choice. Then I suppose I should skip to following "MANUAL ENGINE STARTUP & PANEL/SYSTEMS CONFIGURATION - APU RUNNING SCENARIO". Then, I should go back to continuing with the "default engines started scenario". But in the manual engine start-up scenario, the APU is already started, judging by the title, but I want to start it manually (since this is supposed to be a cold and dark start-up), so I guess it wouldn't make sense to now follow the APU start-up procedure, since the APU was already started upon following the "MANUAL ENGINE STARTUP & PANEL/SYSTEMS CONFIGURATION - APU RUNNING SCENARIO". In the case of the other HJG simulations, each scenario is "self sufficient", you choose what kind of start-up procedure you want to perform, follow its corresponding checklist, and don't mind the other scenarios, which you have nothing to do with, as you don't want to perform those start-up procedures. For instance, if I want to perform a cold and dark start-up in the 727, I will only deal with the Cold and dark start-up checklist (which tells me everything I need to do from start to finish), while I would have nothing to do with, say, the engines running scenario. I hope this makes sense. So, long story short, which checklist should I follow, or in what order, if I should follow more, for a cold and dark start-up in the BAe/Avro? I could just go for following Mathias' checklists in his manual, but he doesn't specify how to load the aircraft in the sim (load the Cessna first, do this and that to its systems, then select the BAe 146 of your choice etc), nor does he specify how to get the plane in a cold and dark scenario. At least I haven't seen any such instructions. So if you could guide me towards the light, I'd be forever grateful....
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on Apr 5, 2017 20:21:03 GMT
Dorel, Maybe what is causing your confusion is that the ML panels for BAE/ARJ series remember the last panel state. In other words, when you leave the sim, then the next time the panel will load with the switches, systems just like when you last used it. That gives you flexibility to decide how the state of the aircraft is next time. If you want cold and dark, then before you exit, you must go through a complete shutdown of all systems. So where you enter the checklist depends on what the state of the systems are when the sim starts. Personally I love cold and dark, but for this series, I usually leave the plane as one would normally find it if there's another flight scheduled in short while: Batt on, GPU connected and engaged, one pack on, Nav lights on, Master switches on except for spoilers air brakes, DC and PTU pumps on. And that's about it. If it was a late evening flight,and the plane isn't going to go go back out until 8am the next morning, maybe you do a complete shutdown. It's all up to you! "As real as it gets" I think these ML panels are the best in terms of a true simulation. But then I'm expecting George's DC10 is going to blow us away! Mike
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 5, 2017 21:36:18 GMT
The very first time they are ever used .... both panels should load into FS with all systems (APU, engines, electrical supply, and avionics) "OFF". If they're doing that .... then fine .... one doesn't need to worry about pre-loading the CESSNA and shutting down its engine beforehand. Instead one can get straight into the business of starting the APU .... or .... sourcing ground power using the external power supply option also provided within these panels (I didn't write much, if anything, about this other feature .... other than the fact it does exist .... simply because I seldom ever use this particular scenario) .... then configuring the electrical and generator systems "prior to" engine startup .... and after engine startup .... shutting down the APU and reconfiguring the electrical/generator systems once again .... 2 separate configurations are required there. If these panels load into FS with the engines already started (they can/will do this if an engines running state, which also implies other sytems are active too, is saved/dictated by the CONFIG.INI and CONFIG2.INI files associated with these panels .... again the general state of most systems represented within these panels will "always" be saved, and transferred from one FS session to the next .... even following an FS shutdown and restart later .... and which is how these panels are designed to function) .... then one can get straight on with the business of "post" APU shutdown and engine startup systems reconfiguration. Using these panels "EVERYTHING" must be correctly configured during each scenario .... or .... the instrumentation likely will not be powered or won't work, alerts and warning lamps will likely be triggered .... and in the case of an intended manual engine startup scenario it might not be possible to successfully start the engines either.... "until everything "is" correctly configured. In the case of any systems missconfiguration .... the Master Warning System will always activate an attention alarm (ding/ding/ding) and flashing attention lamp on the main panel .... and also illuminate an item lamp within the MWS anunciator panel which displays the particular item/s requiring attention. In the even of any alert always focus attention on the MWS anunciator (it tells one precisely what's wrong) .... and then attend to each item accordingly. This may seem a bit daunting at first (to some), but, it all becomes "very easy" later with adaption and experience Remember .... these panels were designed as a home PC based familiarization tool for ARJ/BAe pilots. They each feature a lot of systems fidelity .... and as such are really intended for "advanced FS users". The checklists/procedures I've written into "SECTION 4.00" of our online supplementary manual appear in an order of "convenience" only .... being intended "to aid" getting each of the required systems online .... but .... the order of these procedures, as outlined by me, aren't necessarily presented in a logical or even the correct sequence. A more logical sequence will probably follow "in time", but, what's presented there, so far, is "easily read" (my prime intention) .... without having to flip from one page of the official ML manual to another in order to understand the function of any particular item .... and above all these procedures "DO WORK" .... if followed correctly For a full checklists and procedures associated with panel configuration for each particular scenario please refer to the "official" ML ARJ and BAe manuals which accompany each of these panel files and which appear as follows .... REFER TO SECTIONS 4.0, 4.1, and 4.2 (pages 122-129) OF THE OFFICIAL ML ARJ PANEL MANUAL FOR FULL AND COMPREHENSIVE PRESTART, START, CLIMB, CRUISE, DESCENT, AND LANDING CHECKLITS. REFER TO SECTIONS 4.0, 4.1, and 4.2 (pages 137-145) OF THE OFFICIAL ML BAe PANEL MANUAL FOR FULL AND COMPREHENSIVE PRESTART, START, CLIMB, CRUISE, DESCENT, AND LANDING CHECKLITS.The above-quoted sections of each manual feature Mathias LIEBERECHT's "recommended" order of sequence for each individual procedure. It is recommended that the official ML manual be studied in addition to our supplementary manual. Incidentally pre-loading the CESSNA "is not" a mandatory requirement for these, or any other HJG simulation .... in fact I seldom ever do it myself now and often get straight into the business of preflight configuration for any panel. The reason it's suggested/recommended at all is simply because doing so ensures all features of "any" panel are in their "default FS state" .... prior to selecting any other aircraft/panel combination of choice, since FS will always transfer an established scenario from some selection to the next, whenever any such changes are made within any session .... and which can present issues on some, but not all, systems. Again .... these ARJ panels each save their last "systems state" .... it's important to remember that .... and then apply this to these same panels the veey next tine they are used. This .... so far as I'm aware .... "does not" implicate anything else but the very basics associated with any other FS add-panel used within any FS session .... be it an HJG or other panel/simulation. Hope this's helpful. Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by M.I.B. on Apr 6, 2017 1:40:02 GMT
RRRRRIGHT! I forgot these panels preserve the previous panel state. A few years back, I flight tested the only available HJG BAe 146 at that time, the -300, but I eventually decided to stay with the much inferior, payware Eurowings BAe 146, from Aerosoft. I remember part of the reason why I ditched the HJG BAe was the fact that only the -300 was available (while the Eurowings/Aerosoft package includes the -200, -300 and the -300QT), I wasn't deadly serious about BAe 146 realism, and I wasn't exactly in the mood for serious studying to get my type rating on this exquisite simulation, I was happy with what the old Eurowings birds offered, and so I kept that package. But now, I'm definitely up for a major Jumbolino upgrade, as I'll retire the old Eurowings fleet in favor of these jewels. I've just completed a quick cold and dark startup + takeoff test, as per your instructions (keeping in mind that the panel preserves the previous state), and it went....well, I think it went flawlessly, considering it's my first serious test flight of any of these simulations, and without extensive documentation. I re-downloaded the panel and the the gauges, to see if the plane will load with engines off, but the engines were running nonetheless. No biggie, I followed the shutdown checklist in Mathias' manual, hence bringing the panel in a cold and dark config, after which I followed the cold and dark start-up checklists, and all went b-e-a-utiful! Now both of your explanations make so much sense, so THANK YOU so much for offering to help, very much appreciated and useful! PS.: Mark, as a matter of fact, I was thinking of starting a new topic in the BAe help forum, but I figured this would be a very quick and easy query followed by a likewise answer, but I think it has now turned into a pretty valuable piece of support that other simmers might find helpful in the future, so I suppose the help forum would the best place for it.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 6, 2017 8:03:22 GMT
I've moved yours and Mike's postings here Dorel .... since both feature valuable information that may benefit more folk than whom ask in the first instance .... and I've also stickied this information "HERE" to similarly aid folk in the future too The panel CONFIG.INI and CONFIG2.INI files could be remembering a previous scenario from one of the HJG test systems .... and be applying it to your own installation Dorel, but, there may be a way to forced the scenario you want and which I've outlined below TYPICALLY .... if one vacates these ARJ/BAe panels using an engines running situation .... meaning the engines, HP fuel levers, and engine fuel system switches are all still "ON" when FS is vacated .... then .... the panels CONFIG.INI and CONFIG2.INI files will save that particular scenario, and when the panel is next loaded into FS, even after an overnight shutdown, that same engines running/fuel system swiches "ON" scenario will be reloaded again into FS. If you want to coax an engine "OFF" scenario for the very next time these pane are used then the what I'd recommend you try doing is as follows .... 1. Shutdown the engine using the HP levers. 2. Select the fuel system switches "OFF". 3. Vacate FS. I haven't tried doing this yet muself, ebut, it should (according to my own and the panels logic) coax these panels into loading an engines "OFF" scenario .... for you to power up and configure the very next time you load them into FS. PLEASE NOTE: Each scenario is specific to each of the 2 panels .... and not both panels together in FS. Try that and see how you get along. All you'll need to do after loading any engines off situation is connect to the external/ground power source .... and/or get the APU started .... then the electrical and generator systems configured also. THE FOLLOWING "IS NOT" IN RELATION TO DORELS QUERY .... I'M JUST SEIZING THE MOMENT TO ENCOURAGE IN AS MUCH AS TO EDUCATE TOO I absolutely agree with Mike .... and despite knowing full well that complexity and/or systems fidelity simply "IS NOT" everyone cup of tea .... I too say these panels are "A MARVEL". They've ave been here for 10 years .... since 2007 .... save for the recently introduced ARJ specific panel version, but which features precisely the same degree of fidelity. And despite their complexity/fidelity it "DOES NOT" take long to learn how everything functions either. I figured it all out within the fduration of a morning .... and without even having read the manual at that stage (10 months ago) either .... and I had these panels mastered sufficiently to commence route flyinf within 3 days .... and only then realized what I'd been missing since 2007 through not having flown them, or any of our ARJ's/BAe's previously. The long and short of all this is .... in reality I'm as "NEW" to these ARJ/BAe simulations as any of our other community members too ... so .... the playing field is now level for us all .... for once Our supplementary manual is intended to assist folk learning these panels .... in a (hopefully) straight-forward way .... and right down to our 2 tutorial flights (2 flying tutorials are provided because both panels are "different" and require different procedures .... SO PLEASE .... "read the data provided" to avoid getting trapped out. The official ML manuals should be still referenced additionally also. Panel features are all indexed at the start of each of these official manuals, so, nothing's difficult to find .... or even learn. OOOH AND ANOTHER THING TOO .... and despite the fact I've stated this several times and places already (including within the installation instructions that accompany each panel version) .... use these panels with the correct base packs for which they're intended. "DO NOT" use the ARJ panel with BAe base packs .... or it won't work. "DO NOT" use the BAe panel with ARJ base packs .... or it won't work either. Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 11, 2017 9:57:43 GMT
As I hinted per a single sentence within one of my reply postings earlier in this thread .... whilst we've (Mike and myself at least) mostly mastered these ARJ and BAe panels some aspects of features represented within each are still being learned by us. I want to pass on the following of tips concerning in the interests of aiding peoples enjoyment of this particular panel. 1. Using the HJG supplied ARJ panel ...."IF" .... a slight auto-power-roll-back is ever experienced following any high power T/O .... to the extent that airspeed/acceleration may be impaired, even during a shallow ROC, then that's likely happening as a result of the FADEC system being engaged (the FADEC system in this panel version is always "ON" by default). Should this pose any such difficulties, then, the best (temporary)resolution is to ensure each of the 4 FADEC switches/tabs (located above both banks of engine instruments) are disengaged (showing "OFF") prior to T/O. Failure to do this can result in what may at first appear to be a power loss after T/O. This "IS NOT" a panel problem .... but rather .... "IF" the FADEC system remains engaged .... it's simply the result of the FADEC system doing what it's supposed to do .... "ensuring engine power does not ever exceed certain limitations .... and which is probably governed by whatever modes are engaged within the Thrust Rating Computer compiled into the "PRS" sub panel (this's what I'm still learning) in this panel version . Disengaging the FADEC system simply ensures "complete/full manual control" over engine thrust/power at all times during T/O and climb and without the risk of any auto-power-roll-back .... unless airspeed, through power management, is delegated to the AT system. The FADEC system should however be re-engaged during cruise. 2. Using the ARJ panel version .... during AP controlled level cruise .... should one desire to commence further AP controlled climb/descent to an alternative altitude, then, the best procedure in order to accomplish this is as follows .... - Select a target altitude within the Altitude Selector gauge on the AP MCP. - Engage the "VS" tab on the AP MCP. - Use the vertical speed thumb wheel to select the desired ROC/ROD. .... each stage of this procedure being performed in the above specific order. It "is not" necessary to disengage the either the AP master switch or "ALT HLD" tabs on the AP MCP to facilitate this procedure. The simulation will/should commence the commanded ROC/ROD toward the selected altitude in response to the above procedure/s and selected settings. 3. Using the ARJ panel version .... when climbing/descending to/from cruising altitude "with the AT system engaged" .... be reminded that when passing through 24,000 FT the AT will automatically default to "MACH" velocity indications during climb .... and to "IAS" airspeed indications during descent .... both indications being in proportion to airspeed/velocity acquired at the point of this auto-transition. This is all "quite normal" and should be expected .... and be adjusted as desired .... if necessary at all. 4. Using the HJG supplied ARJ panel .... the wing spoilers are armed by left mouse clicking the Center Pedestal spoiler/air brakes lever to its "ARM" detente (or using the standard FS wing spoiler command) .... which then deploys the rear air brake doors .... and enables the wing spoilers to "auto deploy" upon main gear contact with the RWY during landing. 5. Using the HJG supplied ARJ panel .... both the wing spoilers and rear fuselage air brakes will "auto-retract" when decelerating through/below 25 KTS during rollout after landing .... but .... the flaps must be "manually retracted". 6. Using the HJG supplied BAe panel .... the wing spoilers are armed by left mouse clicking the Center Pedestal spoiler/air brakes lever to its "ARM" detente (or using the standard FS wing spoiler command) .... which then deploys the rear air brake doors .... BUT .... the spoiler/air brakes lever must then be left mouse clicked, around its bottom right, in order to be set to its "FULLY DOWN" detente in order for the wing spoilers to "auto-deploy" upon main gear contact with the RWY during landing. 7. Using the HJG supplied BAe panel .... the wing spoilers, rear fuselage air brakes, and flaps must each be "manually retracted". The Center Pedestal spoiler/air brakes lever must first be be left mouse clicked around its bottom right in order to be set back to its "ARM" detente .... then .... left mouse clicked again/held around its bottom right and manually dragged back up to its fully retracted detente. Differences in panel gauges, and their programming, account for this variation in spoiler/air brake lever handling procedures between both the HJG supplied ARJ and BAe panels .... otherwise these procedures, as outlined, are quite normal. Some of, but not all of, these procedures are outlined within our supplementary manual and tutorials .... "ARJ/BAe Panel Installation & Handling Notes"tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thread/8501/arj-panel-installation-handling-notes PLEASE NOTE: We can only update as is convenient for us to do so. Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by M.I.B. on Apr 13, 2017 17:46:43 GMT
Valuable set of additional information Mark, cheers for that! For me personally, the automatic (FADEC-induced) thrust reduction following a high-power T/O, is especially relevant. I did actually experience this during my test flight, I immediately took a quick look at the engine gauges, and I could see the "FADEC" labeling above the gauges - and I instantly knew it was the FADEC keeping my engine power in check. But I didn't bother to try and see if/how I can disable the system, I was concentrating on other systems/procedures.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 15, 2017 0:56:59 GMT
"THANKS" Dorel I will update this thread with other useful procedures I feel may, in future, require clarification, so, folk should check these details from time to time for such updates, or any recommended changes in procedures. Our supplementary forum based manual for these ARJ and BAe simulations, and their tutorials also, will be similarly updated too (as is the case for all HJG supplied manuals/tutorials/handling notes), so again, folk should, from time to time, check the last updated date appearing within the top of each page/posting associated with this documentation, in order to be alerted to any such changes .... minor though some of these may be. I do not normally post notice of such changes (just don't have time) .... so again .... folk need to be vigilant and check for themselves I have .... however .... this morning updated, and further fine tuned, some of the above notes as well as the forum based manual for these simulations too. Mark C AKL/NZ
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