FS9: autopilot ALT and VS modes only 164ft steps possible

[flyingfox]

Hello,

I am all new on the forums, but a long time user of HJG-products. Thanks a lot for keeping this project up.

Now, to my issue.

- FS9
- Win 7/64bit
- MD-82/88

When loading any of the MD-80 series (I have tried the MD-82 and MD-88) I keep on having issues with the autopilot. On one hand the altitude that can be selected is not rounded to hundreds or thousands, but increases/decreases to really odd values like 3411ft etc.. Then, when flying, it is not possible to select a positive vertical speed. The best I can dial is "0 fpm". Practically I am not able to make the aircraft climb with the autopilot engaged.

I have deleted and re-installed the aircraft from scratch. I have tried using the defaul autopilot of FS9's B737, but it did not help, I always get the same results.

Possibly I have done something wrong and I could not find the solution by myself so far. I have dug into the aircraft.cfg, but there isn't anything that looks wrong to me.

Do you have any idea what the problem could be? Some module that interferes? All other HJG-aircraft work nicely. I am using the B727, DC8, DC10, L1011 as well.

Thanks for your time, Andreas

[M.I.B.]

Hi Andreas, in which of the panels from this list did you encounter those issues? Does it happen with all of them?

[flyingfox]

Hi Dorel,

I have tried the standard panel, I have tried the Aldus MD80 panel, I have tried the Golding EFIS panel.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Firstly .... there's no known issues with AP functions within any of the 4 panels we offer for our MD-80/90 (or B717-200) simulations .... and there's nothing within the FDE either that could generate any such issues described by you .... otherwise these files simply wouldn't be offered by us.

We offer 4 panels for MD-80/90 use .... as follows and which are known by us in accordance with their author names ....


- "GOLDING EARLY" analogue version (for MD-81/82/83 use)

- "GOLDING LATE" analogue version (for MD-81/82/83 use)

- "SPADA SEMI-EFIS" version (for MD-81/82/83 use)

- "SOUTHEY EFIS" version (for MD-87/88/80 .... and B717-200 use)


Incidentally .... either of these 4 panels can be used with any of our MD-80/-90 simulations despite our recommended application/s.


It's "very odd" that each of our own, or reworked, panels you're currently use don't seem to demonstrate this same issue for you .... yet just these MD-80/80/B717-200 panels (which are yet unmodified by us) and the default MSFS panel (if I'm understanding you correctly) are presenting this issue.

Within each of the 4 panels we offer AP controlled ROC/ROD and target altitude values are selectable per 100 FT (imperial measurements) increments .... and which requires the AP to be "engaged" (first) then the desired ROC/ROD dialled-into the MCP (finally) .... and the simulation will respond accordingly.

As I've already mentioned no such issues, as you describe, have ever been previously reported in regard to any of these panels (or other panels we offer aslso) since we first uploaded them .... during 2009/10.

Did you get your panels from "here" .... or from somewhere else ?

Please advise .... before I comment any further.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

I was going to await your comment before responding further but a couple of (basic) ideas quickly sprang to mind as follows ....


1. Before you select, and load, your MD-80/-90 simulations into FS .... are you first loading the MSFS default CESSNA ?

This "shouldn't be essential", but, it's a known fact that on some systems "ANY" simulation can demonstrate issues if a default aircraft is not loaded first .... or between any other aircraft type changes within the same FS session.

Loading a default MSFS supplied aircraft type "FIRST" .... then selecting your aircraft type of choice .... "CAN" (sometimes) resolve issues in regard to certain panel/gauge anomalies and sensitivities.


2. Within FS itself .... What increment of "height measurement" are you using .... imperial or metric units ?


Try out #1 and check #2 .... and then report back please.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[M.I.B.]

OK, as far as the Aldus panel is concerned, the HJG staff will most likely not be in a position to help you out with it, simply because that panel is not offered by HJG, it's a "foreign" product, so that's beyond their jurisdiction.   Folks may try and assist you as much as they can, if they so desire, but given that we're talking about a merge of that panel with an HJG simulation, there are many things that can go wrong, systems that can conflict with each other, and "ends which don't meet".

As for the HJG-supplied panels, I can only echo Mark's words. So far as I'm aware, such behavior has never been reported in any of those 4 panels. In fact, I believe it isn't and shouldn't even be possible to increase the selected altitude to such chaotic, random values. I've just tested the Golding EFIS panel you mentioned (which is actually a semi-EFIS panel), just to be sure, and sure enough, the altitude selector increases the value by one hundred feet at a time. The VS selector also works normally, there's no problem selecting any ROC/ROD and have the AP maintain it. So I think it's safe to assume the problems do not lie in the HJG-supplied panels, there must be something else going on over there, somewhere. 

When you said you used the default 737 AUTOPILOT, what exactly do you mean by that? Did you use the entire default 737 panel (assigning that panel to the MD-80 simulation), or JUST the autopilot? And if you only used the autopilot, how exactly did you do that? When you encountered these problems in the HJG-supplied Golding panel, did you carry out any kind of modifications to the panel and/or aircraft?

[flyingfox]

Hi Mark,

thanks for taking your time to respond, appreciated.

I have now done some more tests. Until a few minutes ago I was convinced that the problem was isolated to the MD80-series. I was wrong. I tried to fly the DC10, same problem: I can only change altitudes in 164ft steps, only RODs can be selected, no ROC. Very strange! Any other freeware aircraft that does not use a custom-built autopilot, has this issue, so there's no problem originating from any of your planes. I now have to get down to the bottom of this issue, something must be interfering... I will reply back in case that I find it.

PS: yes, I was using the default B737-panel/autopilot to make sure it is not the other MD80 panel creating this issue. But as explained above, the problems are present in all freeware aircraft that I have now, very strange.

PPS: even default aircraft of FS9 exhibit this behaviour, that sucks. Both ALT and VS can only be changed in 164ft-steps, very odd. In worst case I will have to re-install the SIM, that would not be nice.

[flyingfox]

Ok, I just tested a clean install of FS9 on a different Windows partition and there everything works as advertised. I must have some gauge/module to pieces... Do you guys have ANY idea what file will be in charge of the problems described above?

I just renamed this thread to reflect the facts correctly. Could someone of you move to a more appropriate section of the forums? Thanks a lot and sorry for the extra work.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

so there's no problem originating from any of your planes. I now have to get down to the bottom of this issue, something must be interfering

Being the principle tester of everything this group offers whilst also being "open-minded" as I do always try to be (believe it or not) .... I can only agree with that ....

The problem (whatever's causing it) is "definitely" associated with something on your own system.

I can't offer any other suggestions in the absence of a particular known influence, condition, or possible panel misconfiguration (I don't suggest you're misconfiguring the panel/s) .... simply because time and experience have taught us there aren't any such known influences.

Try those 2 suggestions I tendered within my 2nd reply .... and report back.

Other than this .... I'm all out of both knowledge and ideas.

Just one last detail though ....

Are you using FSUIPC .... even in an "unlicensed/non-registered" form ?

I have seen evidence (in the past) which suggests this can help with more than just default weather related influences .... using its Minimum/Defaults (only) option.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[flyingfox]

Hi Mark,

yes, I have a fully licenced version FSUIPC installed, I am using the standard in aviation, the US System. I also usually start FS with a standard aircraft (such as a Cessna), I do all the best practives etc.. This problem caught me out on an online flight today and I thought it was limited to a certain type and I had installed something incorrectly.

I have no clue what has happened, my SIM used to work so nice for the last 6 years since I had built this computer and at the moment I have no idea what I have changed that is now causing these problems. At least that gives me some motivation to actually setup my new Windows partition

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Definitely won't be caused by any gauge or module among the files we offer.

Everything we offer works fine in conjunction with everything else and without any conflicts .... BUT .... if I understand you correctly everything's performing fine now .... is that right ?

I've heard of WINDOWS based (SP type) updates potentially messing with things .... an "extremely rare" event though.

Have you installed any such updates recently ? .... or .... Do you have any other recently installed simulations or even scenery, flight/load planning, weather, or other adventure generating programs that might be considered as "possibly causative" of your issue/s ?

These too are all "very rare scenarios".

Your experience does, to me, sound like it could be the result of some form of other (non-HJG supplied) module or utility conflict, or corruption, within your FS installation or system .... something we've no control over and which makes troubleshooting these sorts of issues extremely difficult .... if not impossible .... to pin-point because they tend to be case specific.

From our perspective though there's absolutely no reason why these particular simulations (or anything else we offer) shouldn't run perfectly .... since everything's thoroughly tested before it ever makes our downloads pages .... and we've not updated any of our MD-80'/-90's quite a number of years.

Just one comment I do need to Make though .... in respect of Dorel's last reply ....

We/HJG can only provide assistance/technical support for files obtained from "this/the HJG website".

There are panels uploaded at other FS website labelled as being compatible with HJG simulations .... but .... we know, for a fact, this's not entirely the case .... since these productions don't always share the same strong inter-relationship/inter-dependence between many of our FDE's and soundpacks .... which we customize for use with our own simulations.

Other compilers (bless their hearts ) don't often understand/appreciate these factors. There's often a great gulf between our and others peoples interpretation of "compatibility"

Despite 1 or 2 possible exceptions .... one can't always apply any other panel, or soundpack, to our simulations and expect these to run flawlessly.

The files we provide are however mostly customized for exclusive use with what we offer.

Again .... I mention this in support of Dorel's statement .... because it "IS" very relevant.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[flyingfox]

Hi Mark,

don't worry. After my failed flights on the DC-10, the standard FS9 C172 and other planes that use the autopilot that comes with FS9, I do know now that something is messed up in my FS9-installation. I did not really install any tools, (automatic) sceneries or addon aircraft between the last time I flew one of the freeware aircraft of HJG and the occurrence of these problems. My nicely set up FS9 is toast. I have another hard disk in my computer that has its own Win7 OS and I booted this one, installed FS9 fresh and everything works there as advertised. I wanted to move on to my new partition anyway, so I will do this now. It is just a pity that I will have to install a billion sceneries, tools, aircraft etc. from scratch.

Re the Aldus MD80-panel: that used to work nicely with your MD80-series, that's why I used it. I did some modifications on it to include ISG and a pushback-gauge, but that's it. I have also added ISG and this pushback-gauge to most other freeware panels for your DC10s, L1011s etc.., they all used to work nicely. Until now.


I was just hoping that somebody here knew which FS9-gauge is responsible for the vertical modes of the standard autopilot.


Thanks for having taken your time to respond.


Regards, Andreas

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Bear in mind our current DC-10 panels will be replaced soon .... with far superior versions with a lot more working features.

There'll also be am L-1011 panel upgrade soon too .... featuring some/a minor amendment/s.

In regard to your other stuff .... "no worries" .... as much as we like to try'n supply we also like to try'n help in the interest of product support too .... that's what we do here

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[flyingfox]

Sounds good! Looking forward to it!

[George Carty - HJG]

Just let me say that the new DC-10 panels (currently in testing) will combine a panel lighting system like that of our 707/720 panel series, systems simulation like our DC-9 panel series (but in a more user-friendly form) and an autopilot as comprehensive as that of our L-1011 panel series.

George