Boeing 727 autopilot engage & disengage

[skipbo]

Good afternoon my blessed friends.

I am a 727 Senior Captain with Delta Virtual Airlines and absolutely love the HJG aircraft offerings.

To date, I have 2,508 completed DVA flight legs, 5,136 flight hours and have transported 336,895 happy DVA
virtual customers to all destinations of the world throughout the SkyTeam alliance footprint. I have currently
logged 1,902,166 flight miles to date. 85% of all my virtual flights have been utilizing HJG's fantastic 727
jetliner aircraft.

My next assignment today will be a 533 mile Denver -to- Phoenix flight onboard Delta aircraft#: N544DA
(1962-1997 Classic Widget Livery).

I have a question with regard to the auto pilot function of the beloved HJG 727 series. As I don't enjoy
wasting time of others, I have spent extensive time reading the HJG 727 manuals & tutorials in the attempt
to first troubleshoot my challenge.

I have a challenge re engaging the Auto Pilot. I have difficulty disengaging the AIL Lever on approach
into a destination and have to depress the MS-FSX Key "Z" to disengage" to gain control of my aircraft.
As the 727 is a flying dream, I prefer a manual stick approach where I'm in control of the movements, not
relying upon the Auto Pilot feature.

The only way to re-engage the AP function when preparing my next flight leg (at the gate) is to select
another aircraft, then re-select my original 727 I just completed the flight leg with.

Using MS-FSX, I have the autopilot function on/off set a keyboard key "Z". I'm not able to reactivate
the auto pilot though for my next flight leg.

The second odd anomaly I have is that I'm unable to push back either left or right, just straight back.
This feature works fine though with HJG DC-10's DC-8's and 707's that I'm also DVA Captain qualified for.

Third odd anomaly I have is that I"m unable to open the aircraft right side baggage compartment (Shift +E2).
Main exit works fine but our passengers can't seem to obtain their luggage.

I've have reinstalled the 727 aircraft a few times only to experience similar results.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated from your group. I'm able to fly successful flight legs
with these oddities but I'd love to improve the experience.

I am truly thankful for your product offerings and support. It's truly first class.

Thank you for your valued time! I greatly appreciate it.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

I have difficulty disengaging the AIL Lever on approach into a destination and have to depress the MS-FSX Key "Z" to disengage" to gain control of my aircraft.

The first thing I need to say is .... "our B727 panels" (those we offer here) are intended for FS2004 use, but, we know these do port over fine to FSX .... and no problem/s should result .... save for possibly engine startups which may require an alternative procedure.

There are/should be no problems whatsoever with the AP though .... or any of its functions .... in either FS2004 or FSX .... at least I've never hear of any that I can immediately recall .... apart from the occasional persons misunderstanding of how the AP is designed to function.

The AP is/should be "engaged" by selecting the 2 paddle switches to their "up" position .... and then "disengaged" by selecting the same 2 paddle switches to their "down" position (mouse clicking between these 2 paddle switches should control both) .... and which in turn activates the AP DISENGAGE alarm and triggers a red annunciator lamp on the main panel.

Upon disengaging the AP it cannot then be re-engaged .... until the AP DISENGAGE annunciator lamp has first been cancelled.

This is the way that AP is designed/intended to be used ... in both FS2004 and FSX.

ALTERNATIVELY .... selecting Keyboard command "Z" .... in FS2004 .... will also disengage the AP .... and I assume this's the same in FSX too .... it should be since I've not familiar with any other reports to the contrary.

EITHER WAY and following any AP disengage .... the AP DISENGAGE annunciator lamp, on the main panel, "must be" mouse clicked "OFF" .... otherwise it will not be possible to re-engage the AP .... particularly if you intend a 2nd flight within the same FS session an after any virtual stopover/turnaround.

An incidental recommendation for all add-on FS aircraft and not just HJG's .... "ALWAYS START ANY FS SESSION USING THE DEFAULT MSFS CESSNA OR OTHER DEFAULT MSFS SUPPLIED AIRCRAFT .... THEN .... SELECT THE ANY ADD-ON AIRCRAFT OF CHOICE". Whilst this procedure is not absolutely essential in regard to HJG supplied add-on aircraft it "IS" non-the-less "recommended" and endorsed by us.

The second odd anomaly I have is that I'm unable to push back either left or right, just straight back.

I had this happen to me last year .... not in regard to the B727's or any other particular HJG offering, but rather, in regard to "every" add-on aircraft I had installed.

Like you .... I could only push back, but, the P/B and turn function stopped working.

I researched into, and puzzled over, this problem for months .... until I found the/a solution.

One day I simply loaded the default MSFS CESSNA .... then .... using the default FS P/B and turn keys .... I pushed back .... and turned .... THEN .... I selected an add-on aircraft (within the same FS session) and did the same .... and WHAM-MAN-THANK YOU MAM the problem was resolved.

All of my add-on aircraft are now pushing back and turning .... as I command .... and as they have ever since.

I never really found the cause of my issue, but, I suspect it might have occurred through my use of a P/B utility built into the panel of another add-on (non-HJG) aircraft I have installed. It's function/s may have temporarily over-ridden/conflicted with the default P/B function of FS .... but .... that's how I resolved my particular issue anyway.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

I"m unable to open the aircraft right side baggage compartment (Shift +E2).
Main exit works fine but our passengers can't seem to obtain their luggage.

I'm not sure if that feature/function is designed into any of our B727's (it may be .... and "IS" among our B737's I can confirm), but, "IF" it is, then, it'll be one of those animations which must be manually avtivated within FS ASSIGNMENTS .... such and TAIL HOOK or WINGFOLD.

I think it's one of those 2 commands, but again, it's a fnction yjat must nbe mabually assigned in FS .... and it's one I also seldom, if ever, utilize.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[skipbo]

Thank you my friend. I'll attempt to rectify!

Here we are holding short of Denver's 34R ready for takeoff clearance.
We are flying Western Airlines historic flight 1502, leg 1.

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[Nathan Ford - HJG]

Hi Skipbo,

I will have to check the default shortcut key for the baggage compartment doors and will let you know. One thing I have found that is different between using this aircraft in FS9 and FSX is that you need to have an engine running to open the baggage doors or the side freight door. I don’t know if it’s just my setup, or if FSX requires hydraulic pressure from an engine, but that’s the only way I can get them to work in FSX.

Funny story, I was trying to open the baggage doors before I realised my problem only to have an external look during cruise to see them wide open   That would have been a tough day for the folks on the lost luggage counter!

Will get back to you after I conduct a couple of tests.

Cheers,

Nathan.

[Nathan Ford - HJG]

Just checked, the “Tail hook (up/ down)” command opens the front baggage door. If you give it a keyboard shortcut you can open it that way, but as I said, I need to have an engine running in FSX to open or close it.

I hope this helps,

Cheers,

Nathan.

[Nathan Ford - HJG]

Nice picture by the way

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

you need to have an engine running to open the baggage doors or the side freight door

That's very odd .... and something I've never hard of before.

One shouldn't need an engine running in order to be able to open the underfloor/starboard side lower fuselage baggage/cargo doors .... simply because there's no relationship between this animation and the engines with these B727 simulations.

Whilst reasonably well featured our B727 panels are actually composed of a much simpler type of programming.

Unlike is the case with our DC-9's panels .... hydraulics pressure, whilst it may be featured in some way within our B727 panels, is not required in order to render the like of doors, flaps, and slats (etc) functional.

Many of our panels are designed in accordance with the different philosophies of different authors/programmers rather than to a single/uniform/common standard .... hence some of our panels feature higher degrees of fidelity than others.

If the underfloor/starboard side lower fuselage baggage/cargo doors do work .... and as appears to be the case (on the basis of Nathan's checking) .... then .... the FS OPTIONS/ASSIGNMENTS based TAILHOOK/WINGFOLD keyboard command assignmente should be more than adequate to render this particular animation functional.

If this animation isn't working .... then .... that, to me, would indicate the required keyboard assignments are either "not" assigned, or, have been incorrectly assigned, or, are not being correctly applied.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[Nathan Ford - HJG]

Having looked into it a bit more it is because I am using the Acceleration version of FSX which requires an electric pump in the hydraulic section of the aircraft config.

[hydraulic_system]

normal_pressure = 1000

electric_pumps = 1

engine_map = 1



The electric pumps line is important otherwise you never achieve a full 100% hydraulic system integrity. Without the full 100% integrity the doors take a loooooong time to open.



The pressure is needed to run the tailhook. This is different from the tailhook behaviour in FSX SP2 version. If you activate the tailhook in SP2 without hydraulic pressure the tailhook will drop but it will not rise. I guess in acceleration you need hydraulic pressure to move the tailhook at all.

Without electric hydraulic pumps in the .cfg, I need to have an engine running to open the cargo doors.

I will experiment with the aircraft .cfg tomorrow and see if I can add the electric pumps to the hydraulic section and therefore be able to operate without the engines running. 

Once again, I hope this helps people using the Acceleration version of FSX. 

Cheers,

Nathan.

[Nathan Ford - HJG]

Ok, I have run a quick test and can confirm that changing the aircraft.cfg hydraulic system electric_pumps from;

[hydraulic_system]
electric_pumps=0
engine_map=1,1,1,0
normal_pressure=3000.000000

to

[hydraulic_system]
electric_pumps=1
engine_map=1,1,1,0
normal_pressure=3000.000000

Allows the tail hook command to work properly in FSX Acceleration and therefore the forward baggage door and side freight door will operate without the engine running.

Cheers,

Nathan

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

You might have discovered something even I didn't know Nathan

And nothing else (like flaps, landing gear, rudder, and elevator animations) is adversely affected on the basis of your adjustments ?

They shouldn't be ... I'm just querying in the interest/s of my own technical curiosity and comfortt only

ALSO .... your experimentation is based on, or requires, "FSX ACCELERATION" (only) right ? .... so it may not/does not apply to other such unsupported FSX installations .... correct ?

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[Nathan Ford - HJG]

Yes Mark, it is based on Acceleration only. I think it is just the tail hook that needs the hydraulic pressure and as the door opening uses the tail hook command, it is tarred with the same brush. I do notice without the .cfg update, that the door starts to open then stops, almost like “cracking” one of the main doors.

Nathan.

[skipbo]

Thank you my friends.

I'll give the tailhook key select a whirl and see if I can resolve to get the luggage door open.

My virtual passengers seems quite agitated and a few were chasing me down the concourse demanding their luggage.
I'm hiding out under the counter at the Cinnabon in the terminal food court! I'm gonna make a run for it shortly
to make another flight.

My next flight leg though will be PHX -to-ABQ in the beautiful Frontier historic livery.

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Thanks all again.

Brian Donaldson
727 Senior Captain ~ Delta Virtual Airlines.