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Post by transportfan2014 on Oct 8, 2018 9:00:16 GMT
Hi, I am having trouble getting the VOR/LOC selector to make the aircraft align with the flight path. When I engage INS function, the aircraft will align itself with the flight path, but not when I engage the VOR/LOC function. What baffles me is the the 720B does not have this issue (even though the 720B, like the 727 does not have a NAV/GPS switch), and when I watch the INS tutorial, I noticed that the aircraft in the tutorial does align itself with the flight path with VOR/LOC selected, but when I set VOR/LOC, that aircraft won't bother aligning itself. I wonder what procedure I am missing out? And again, I am baffled that the VOR/LOC selector makes the aircraft in the INS tutorial align with the flight path, but it does not when I attempt to use VOR/LOC selector instead of INS selector. Any help will be appreciated. (Panel used: 727ADV JT8D-17; sim used: FSX) (First screenshot is taken from the tutorial video; notice that the aircraft is aligned to the flight path as indicated by the green light on the announciator) (Second screenshot taken from my simulator; the aircraft does not align to the flight path as indicated by the amber light on announciator) (Third screenshot showing green announciator with INS selector engaged)
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Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Oct 8, 2018 9:26:16 GMT
Hi Transportfan,
In your pics, I notice that the HSI needle is deflected quite a bit to the right. The very helpful B727 handling notes compiled by Aerophoto (Mark) recommends the following......
So what you need to do is select a course using the autopilot heading mode that will intersect the VOR radial and change to VOR/LOC when the needle is centred or just about to be centred depending on how sharp an angle you will be intercepting.
Have fun,
Cheers,
Nathan
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Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Oct 8, 2018 9:29:03 GMT
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Post by transportfan2014 on Oct 8, 2018 9:30:23 GMT
Hi Transportfan, In your pics, I notice that the HSI needle is deflected quite a bit to the right. The very helpful B727 handling notes compiled by Aerophoto (Mark) recommends the following...... So what you need to do is select a course using the autopilot heading mode that will intersect the VOR radial and change to VOR/LOC when the needle is centred or just about to be centred depending on how sharp an angle you will be intercepting. Have fun, Cheers, Nathan Will test it out. And see what I will get.
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Post by walterleo on Oct 8, 2018 14:51:30 GMT
Hi friends:
Its quite long ago I "flew" the 727 BUT: It seems from your 2nd screenshot that the turn-knob of the AP is NOT exactly in the middle neutral position. If not in neutral the AP will not "obey" a lateral programe (ILS;VOR;HDG) I myself stumbled variuos times over that. If the turn-knob was in neutral the amber light on AP indicates an incorrect frequency selected. Take care also to have on FD and AP the same function selected. With more experience one can use AP and FD differntly selected for difficult procedures.
Hope that helps you
Kind regards
Walter
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Post by transportfan2014 on Oct 8, 2018 15:16:27 GMT
I just don't get it by "turn knob in neutral", do you mind if you point out how the turn knob should be if it is in the neutral position?
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Post by walterleo on Oct 8, 2018 15:36:12 GMT
Hi:
It has to be exactly upright not left not right. Thats it. Sometimes its difficult to see. Therefore I dont use the turnknob prefer to turn the heading bug on the HSI and select heading switch engaged.
Kind regards
Walter
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Post by transportfan2014 on Oct 9, 2018 2:40:36 GMT
And.... I had no luck with the VOR/LOC detente. Oh well, I gotta keep troubleshooting for those aircraft that have reaced cruising altitude without any INS inputs.....
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Post by walterleo on Oct 9, 2018 8:56:06 GMT
Hi: I suspect, that the selected NAV frequency is incorrect as in your screenshot the AP NAV light is amber. That can happen if your FS installation has other airplanes with VOR´s with 25 KHZ spacings e.g. 117.925 MHz. If you think you have selected 117.90 in real 117,925 can creep in. AND: The FS VOR frequencies can differ from the actual frequencies you find in Jeppesen, The FS frequency you can check with the map function of FS. BUT: As seen in your 2nd screenshot the RMI Needle 1 shows a VOR abeam to the right and the HSI says more than 100 miles away going to the right The FD tells you to turn to the right but the AP cannot intercept the VOR course as beeing too far away. Nathan had written about that. Your flightplan programed to the INS leads you to a totally differnt course. Better choose a VOR which is situated on that course and everthing will work. For flightplaning that comes very handy: skyvector.com/Kind regards Walter
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Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Oct 9, 2018 10:33:22 GMT
So it didn’t work when you had the HSI with the needle (course deviation indicator or CDI) centred using the autopilot in heading mode then changing to VOR/LOC?
Nathan
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Post by transportfan2014 on Oct 9, 2018 12:33:42 GMT
To Nathan, Nope, it did not. But I might test your suggestion together with Walter's recommendations. I might try it out again with a Mexicana 727-200 and see if fiddling the NAV1 frequency between VORs will work.
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Post by transportfan2014 on Oct 9, 2018 17:06:29 GMT
And one thing, is the VOR/LOC detente programmed to align the plane to VOR beacons instead of the flight path? Because when I tested both your recommendations (Heading and Course centered and tweaking the NAV1 frequency), I noticed that the announciator remained amber until within about 190 miles from a VOR beacon, then the announciator display turns green.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 9, 2018 18:49:55 GMT
I´m just catching up with all this after having been away for the past almost 3 days. Thanks Nathan .... and Walter .... for your input and attempted solutions. VOR range is basically line of sight/up to 200 miles only .... or a maximum of up to 194 miles in FS .... and some FS VOR´s (like that of TISX and other Caribbean FS sceneries) have far less range than that. Skim reading your postings "TRANSPORTFAN2014" (among other internal priorites at the moment) .... I really can´t fathom what you´re trying to do/the way you´re actually trying to use the B727 AP and its associated NAV features .... because the issues you´re reporting are inconsistent with how we know the radio navigation system in each of these panels performs .... if used properly to start with I´ve flown all of our B727 panels "a lot" .... even un until just recently (as our next website update will confirm) .... using all of the AP NAV features (with the exception of both GPS and INS options) and I´ve only known performance to be totally reliable .... again if used properly. I can only put the following to you .... 1. Are you using the AP and its NAV features as directed within our forum based manual .... and not perhaps in conjunction with another simulation yoi may be familiar with ? 2. Have you made any adjustments/modifcations whatsover (not recommended under any circumstances) to either the panel or its supporting CFG data .... including the supporting AIRCRAFT.CFG base stated RADIOS data for the B727 version base pack and panel you´re using ? 3. Are you using, or have you applied, to our panel/s any utlities that might interfere with the integrity of other panel features ? 4. Did you download your panel from this or another FS website ? I also need to say .... Even using an incorrect B727 panel version with an incorrect B727 aircraft base pack "WILL NOt" result in the issue you appear to be experiencing .... as the AP, Radios, and their NAV functions, all use the very same data/programming. No updates have been applied to our B727-100 panels since 2009, or to our B727-200 panels since 2015, or to our B727 panels gaugers/core files since 2016 .... and those edits that were applied were applied only in accordance with expansions to our B727 representation during this period .... and "NONE of which were in any way related to, and nor could they ever influence, the B727 AP, Radios, or NAV functions. These simulations have only been know to perform fine since their debut relase back in 2007 .... save for end user misunderstanding/s. I´m by no means trying to deminish the fact that "you say" you´re experiencing difficulties .... all I´m sying here is the difficultiews "you say" you´re experiencing are foreign to our knowledfge and past experience in regard to how these panels/simulatiojns actually perform. For starters and to try´n get you back to basics .... I what you to refer to our following linked online/forum based B727 manual .... tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thread/7819/b727-panels-installation-handling-notes.... and I want you to refer to the following section in particular wihin this manual .... 2.03: COMBINED NAV1/2, COM1/2, & AUTOPILOT SUB PANEL.In the absence of any known issues I´m confident you´ll find the answer to your issue/ within the above recommended references. Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by transportfan2014 on Oct 10, 2018 0:10:53 GMT
1) When I read the manual, I thought that catching the targeted course is just like the majority of aircraft, wether HJG or not- by aligning the aircraft using the heading slelector, then engaging VOR/LOC to set the aircraft on the planned flight path (set in the flight planner)
2) No mods to any of the panels in use.
3) I don't remember downloading any utilities (well, no utilities installed into the 727 panel CFGs at least)
4) Well, the panels are'nt downloaded from anywhere else.
And what I usually do in typical FS sessions: I create a flight plan in the flight plaaner before I launch a session. That flight path is what I am referring to....
And I tried setting the course selector and the heading selector to the same bearing before I engage the VOR/LOC detente.....
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Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Oct 10, 2018 1:20:43 GMT
The autopilot VOR/LOC will only lock on and follow the CDI when the VOR you are tuned into is within range. It won’t just follow the flight plan like a gps does. What I do is set the RMI indicator (adf indicator) from adf to VOR using the little switch on the lower left of the instrument, the needle will swing to point in the direction of the VOR when it is in range. You can then turn the course knob on the HSI until the course deviation needle (CDI) is centred, then click the autopilot to VOR/LOC.
This is old school technology which is why it is so much more fun than just turning on a gps.
Hope this has t sorted out for you now, but the most important thing is, you have to be in range of a VOR for it to work.
Cheers,
Nathan.
p.s. When creating a flight plan, make sure you click on VOR to VOR not direct or high altitude airways. That way your flightplan will include all of your VOR frequencies.
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