Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 24, 2019 11:21:29 GMT
We've merged all postings within the 2nd thread concerning this DC-10 AT subject with those of this original thread so everything's now displayed in complete continuity .... and in doing so this original thread has also now been reopened. Consider this a full and non-discriminatory report .... regardless whether or not the OP has resolved his own issue/s.
We're going to (hopefully) put this matter to bed once'n'for all now, but, before we do so we need to state/repeat the following .... "yet again" ....
1. We only support the data we provide .... if people opt to modify this data then we won't/can't assist them.
2. We've never endorsed calibrating power quadrants for these simulations using FSUIPC .... and we don't provide support for FSUIPC either (which in order to achieve such reconfiguration requires a fully licensed "PAYWARE" version of this utility) .... since these simulations "are not" dependent upon FSUIPC to "actually work".
3.The only FSUIPC requirement for these simulations is "an optional one" in regard to the WX Radar and both Fuel Transfer and Dumping System functionalities .... and to effect the functionality of these elements all that's required is an "UNLICENSED" FSUIPC utility (any version from V3.50) which needs no configuring at all.
In addition to the above we need to state the following facts which have influenced this thread ....
1. The OP stated he was experiencing problems with the DC-10 AT.
2. The OP stated he was using FSUIPC to calibrate throttles.
3. The OP did not at first state he'd been editing the data we provide.
4. The OP only confirmed editing the data we provide "after" it was implied he might be doing so.
5. At no stage throughout this thread has the OP ever stated "PRECISELY WHAT HE's EDITED OR HOW HE's ACTUALLY BEEN USING THE PRODUCT/s WE PROVIDE" .... despite our suggesting this should be done.
By virtue of points 4 and 5 (above) our ability to support this query is actually "annulled". The fact we've bothered to persevere this far should be considered "a courtesy" (albeit one that's cost us an incredible amount of time in order to pursue a "NON-EXISTENT" issue) .... as well as it also, in our view, being an example of why people "shouldn't fiddle with what they don't understand".
The prime purpose behind the following part of this report is to assist those whom require advice in regard to using our DC-10 panel AT system .... beyond the advice already stated within our manual .... and to also explain other observations which may become apparent flying our DC-10 simulations.
Extensive retesting over the past 24 hours has confirmed there's "no problem" with the AT (or any of its modes) in these DC-10 panels/simulations .... "everything" is functioning normally and as it's intended to work".
Using the DC-10 AT in basic IAS SPD mode is as simple as follows ....
- Dial a up target AT speed value.
- Engage either the L or R AT servo switches.
The AT will then control IAS airspeed automatically through constant subtle inflight power adjustments.
Prior to engaging the AT .... a TRC mode (either TO, MTO FLX, GA, MCL, CL, MCR) should be selected. Upon selecting a TRC mode the maximum N1 power setting is then displayed digitally .... primarily based on altitude and OAT (in FS), but, it should also be noted that the displayed TRC value "foes not" influenced the AT when IAS SPD HOLD mode is engaged.
Using the TOGA system requires a slightly different AT procedure ....
- Dial a up target AT speed value (for later IAS reference).
- Select TO mode in the TRC .... and note the displayed value.
- Engage either the L or R AT servo switches.
- Engage TOGA mode.
- Engage N1 HOLD (EPR LIMITS in all DC-10-40 panels).
Upon engaging TOGA mode the AT will accelerate engine thrust "to the maximum N1/EPR power setting displayed by the TRC". This power setting won't be exceeded .... unless the N1/EPR HOLD tab hasn't been selected when TOGA mode is engaged. After T/O engine power will remain at N1/EPR limits as set by the AT .... until the AP is engaged and at which point TOGA mode is automatically cancelled. Upon cancellation of the TOGA mode engine power will continue to remain at the previously acquired TRC N1/EPR limits .... until AT IAS SPD HOLD mode is engaged.
Using N1/EPR HOLD mode .... the simulation won't capture or maintain the selected/targeted IAS speed (it's not supposed to .... using this particular AT mode engine thrust is being prioritized over any airspeed capture .... and that's how the system is intended to work "with these simulations") and the selected/targeted IAS airspeed may therefore be exceeded .... unless AT SPD mode is engaged.
If N1/EPR HOLD mode is engaged throughout the climb to cruising altitude (it shouldn't ever be though .... since no more than the necessary power should be applied during any climb) then airspeed will need to be controlled through AP Pitch mode .... but .... which may result in an abnormally high pitch attitude/ROC in order to maintain control over airspeed.
Upon engaging AT IAS HOLD mode (not to be confused with AP IAS PITCH mode) after T/O and clean up and once established in the climb .... CL mode should be selected in the TRC .... and used throughout the remaining climb to cruising altitude .... and its value/s constantly noted and compared with actual engine N1 indications.
Using IAS SPD HOLD mode .... the AT will automatically reduce, and constantly subtly adjust, engine power inflight to acquire and maintain the selected/target IAS airspeed during climb, cruise, and descent .... never applying power in excess of the indicated TRC value.
Using IAS SPD HOLD mode .... the AT shouldn't ever be expected to accelerate engine power to the indicated TRC value (it's not supposed to) .... power indications on all 3 engine gauges will typically remain somewhat below the indicated TRC value (provided one's simulation isn't grossly overweight, being climbed with an excessive pitch attitude/ROC, or an excessively high selected/target IAS airspeed has been entered into the AT system).
Using IAS SPD HOLD mode .... displayed TRC values are simply "a guide" as to the maximum allowed power setting .... primarily determined by OAT and altitude (in FS).
Using IAS SPD HOLD mode .... expect a 3-5 KT discrepancy "below the selected/target IAS airspeed" throughout most of any climb toward cruising altitude. This's a perfectly normal AT anomaly in FS and which will remain evident until much later during any climb and by which time a much reduced ROC will/should have been established .... with the selected/target AT airspeed and actual acquired airspeed being almost in agreement.
Just prior to acquiring the selected/target cruising altitude .... MCR mode should be selected in the TRC .... and used throughout the cruise .... and its value/s constantly noted and compared with actual engine N1 indications.
AGAIN .... there's no sense in engaging AT N1/EPR HOLD during cruise. Doing so will only cause the selected/target IAS airspeed to be exceeded .... resulting in an over speed condition.
In accordance with the above recommended procedures .... it should be noted that indicated AT controlled engine N1/N2 values during cruise may appear between 3% and 5% lower than should be the case in reality (depending on DC-10 version and operating configuration) .... but .... individual aircraft performances "ARE NOT" affected. This minor discrepancy can't be resolved without further AIR data editing .... and then recompilation of each of our customized DC-10 sound packs accordingly also. All of our current sound packs are dependent upon AIR data contained parameters compiled "prior to" compilation of the DC-10 panel series we now offer. These parameters dictate audio tone/s in accordance with applied power settings. Any attempt at recompiling thrust curving data, for the sake of slightly more accurate engine N1/N2 indications, "WILL" result in our current sound packs then being negatively impacted (such can't not happen) .... and will also likely impose other technical issues with some features of the DC-10 panels we now offer too .... so .... be forewarned (as was earlier hinted within this thread). This minor discrepancy needs to be tolerated.
During these past 24 hours we've performed 3 separate and very thorough tests .... from engine startup, to T/O, and then climb to cruising altitude .... using each of the AT modes discussed herein .... and applying these procedures to our DC-10-30 and -40 simulations (these are the 2 most different DC-10 panel versions we offer in respect of both their AT and engine gauge standards .... since each of the other DC-10 panel versions are so fundamentally similar that separate tests aren't warranted) .... and also applying our recommended MGW configuration "Basic Flying Guide" procedures for these tests as are stated for each DC-10 version within the last page of our forum based/online DC-10 manual. These recommended procedures differ slightly for each DC-10 version due to the stated weight and static thrust assignments for each simulation varying considerably.
Each of these 3 tests passed "FLAWLESSLY" in accordance with the above recommended procedures .... AND .... each of the AT modes used during these tests (which were repeatedly switched between N1/EPR HOLD and IAS SPD HOLD modes at different stages during each test) performed "EQUALLY FAULTLESSLY".
Once again .... there is "NOTHING WRONG" with the DC-10 AT system .... provided it's used properly and "AS WE PRESCRIBE" .... and also so long as people "DO NOT EDIT/FIDDLE" with or otherwise reconfigure what we provide.
If people opt to edit/fiddle with their FDE (which includes reconfiguring/reassigning functions through utilities we "DO NOT" support) or any of the other files we provide .... THEN .... we not only won't, but, "CANNOT" assist them.
In cases where genuine support is required, then, we're open to all such approaches .... provided people also explain "precisely what they've done" that's resulted in the issue they're experiencing. To this extent it's essential for people to help themselves .... by helping us "to be able to understand their issue/s" .... if assistance and any successful resolution is to be provided by us.
Mark C AKL/NZ
ADDITIONAL TEST OBSERVATIONS
A further 2 tests flights have been conducted today (July 27th 2019) .... both of which also confirm "no issues" appear to exist with the AT featured in these DC-10 panels/simulations. We feel this matter can now be considered "CLOSED"