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Post by jardx on Jul 29, 2019 20:55:20 GMT
Hello all,
I have noticed that, in my install at least, that the model, I have the -30, -30F, and -50 will only burn out of the right main tank with the fuel crossfeed lever off and all tank boost pumps on that has usable fuel in them. The only way I got the feed to correctly burn for a tank to engine or center tank burn first then right to number 2 and left to number 1 is to turn the crossfeed on then turning the boost pumps on or off. I don’t have a DC-9 type rating but I don’t think this is right and I believe in the handling notes it doesn’t mention anything about that being a known issue. Is there a patch that I’ve missed or how can I fix this?
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 29, 2019 21:40:47 GMT
Just a few of questions for you .... for starters ....
1. Are you FS2004 or FSX ?
2. Before you loaded the DC-9 into FS .... did you "first" load the default MSFS CESSNA or other default MSFS aircraft "before" selecting/loading your DC-9 ? This is a requirement (it's a recommendation rather than being a strict requirement but ensures everything is set to the default standard foe any add-on aircraft of choice) for all HJG offered aircraft .... with the exception of the DC-10's and AMD MERCURE 100 which "don't" require this.
3. Have you applied any FDE or panel related edits whatsoever ?
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by jardx on Jul 29, 2019 23:30:52 GMT
1. Fs2004
2. Yes I shutdown the default Cessna first before loading the DC-9, no I did not change any FDE or air files.
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Post by jardx on Jul 29, 2019 23:32:00 GMT
And no there have been no panel edits.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jul 29, 2019 23:57:04 GMT
Thank you .... and that's fine.
Those are all standard questions we need to ask when such a condition is not known to exist.
This/your experience could come down to fuel tank switch selection on the O/H sub panel.
I'll deal with this as I can, when I can, because within less than the past hour this morning I'm suddenly dealing with a family bereavement .... so bear with me please.
Nark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by jardx on Jul 30, 2019 1:46:27 GMT
That is fine I’m working myself my Friday is Thursday so I may not get a chance to play with FS till Thursday night so when you can tell me where to look on the O/H and I’ll do the best I can to relay what I see and what happens after doing whatever you need me to do.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Aug 1, 2019 9:16:19 GMT
"IF" nothing's mentioned anywhere in the manual .... then .... there's no issue .... or rather .... "no known issue". Some "perceived issues" (and I'm not suggesting for a moment this's the case in this particular case) can arise through comparisons being made with some of our other more complex simulations/panels and resulting erroneous expectations/assumptions .... since the procedures associated with some of our panels (certainly those not originally compiled by us) aren't standardized and do vary somewhat.
By default FS will always burn from the CENTER TANK first (in the case of most simulations) .... then from other tanks following depletion of the CENTER tank .... and that "may" be regardless of what BP switch a X-FEED lever configuration may be in these simulations. So far as I'm aware .... that's precisely what happens with these DC-9 simulations .... and such being the case then they are working as intended/compiled.
Be my own procedure right or wrong .... since 2009 I've been selecting all OH sub panel located BP switches "ON" .... and the CP sub panel located X-FEED lever "ON" too (as is probably reflected within the manual) .... and with no apparent problems .... and which, at worst, would only ever result in either a flame out, or fuel imbalance (with the associated stability problem/s) if mishandled, but which, I've never experienced .... albeit that, even flying at MGW, none of my simulated DC-9 flights has ever exceeded 1.5 hours.
Given the fact I'm currently tied up with a family bereavement my time at the moment is "limited" .... so .... I've referred this query to one of my trusted technical colleagues for additional comment .... "if" he desires to do so .... and when he has time to do so
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on Aug 1, 2019 12:53:29 GMT
"trusted technical colleague" may be a bit of stretch  Anyway, I performed a complete startup on both the 30 and 50 DC9s. That procedure is as follows (somewhat abbreviated so refer to our manuals): Battery On, Start APU as per normal, establish both APU generator and APU Air, On the pedestal: Rudder power on, pneumatic xfeeds open, cabin alt on, fuel xfeed off, fuel levers OFF. OH panel: fuel pumps ON, air supply off (so pneu pressure for engines available), Ignition Grd Start. Start engines, I usually do #2 first, N2 20%, fuel lever on, repeat for #1. establish generators, air supply, shutdown APU. I ran the engines at 60% and the center tank was being used. I then shutdown the center pumps, and the engines began drawing from the right and left tanks. Restarted the center pumps and the engines drew down the center tank again leaving the outboard tanks alone.....All as is normal. In other words, I couldn't reproduce what was reported. OK, solutions? my suggestion is to reinstall the panel and all it's gauges. Be sure to install the panel in fsconv folder as directed and alias accordingly. Failing that, maybe a complete reinstall of the aircraft. Sorry, but I don't have any other suggestions. Mike |
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on Aug 1, 2019 12:54:49 GMT
OH....forgot to add: I also did a CTRL-E startup and had the same result.
Mike
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Aug 2, 2019 20:40:51 GMT
Don't undersell or underestimate yourself Mike. What you, George, Benoit (and I) each do "technically" is the reason why what we offer works as well as it does  I can't replicate the, or any other, issue/problem either. The only details I can add to this quer are as follows .... Use the correct aircraft type/engine type panel with the correct aircraft type/engine type base packs. Don't use just any panel. This's essentional or the engine gauge versus FDE based thrust curving .... and weight calculator relationship with V-speed computations will be mismatched and could result in minor performance related issues. Re fuel systems .... Our DC-9-10 through -30 series are all 3-tank configurations; Our DC-9-40's are 4-tank configurations: And our DC-9-50's are 5-tank configurations .... so again .... the correct panels, with their corresponding fuel pump/system configurations, "must" be used with each aircraft base pack. Failure to ensure "this much" will likely result in fuel related issues du to mismatching of essential data. Mark C AKL/NZ. |
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Post by jardx on Aug 3, 2019 4:31:22 GMT
I am not sure what was wrong I checked my model vs panel for matching engine type and they all match. I do basically the same for the engine start produce except i do not cheat by using the Cntl E shortcut. Funny thing is I did a basic engine start just now for all models then increased the power to watch the fuel feed, with the crossfeed off, and this time all models looked to feed correctly, in this case out of the center with 6 BPs on with useable fuel in all three tanks or in the case of the -50 all three plus the AUX tanks.
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Post by jardx on Aug 3, 2019 12:42:16 GMT
As a quick follow up after those test engine runs I attempted a small trip with fuel only in the wing tanks and did an BP and crossfeed check. As I stated in the first post I noticed that it was only burning from the right main with the crossfeed off so I balanced the fuel. After I turned the BPs on in the left tank after balancing and closed/turned off the crossfeed the feed was a normal fuel feed for a tank to engine config. I am still confused as to why I am seeing this. I guess the temp fix, aside from attempting a reinstall of panel and aircraft, is to either not do a crossfeed check or be sure to cycle the BPs and crossfeed lever before engine start.
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on Aug 3, 2019 16:29:15 GMT
With only fuel in the wing tanks, the center tank pumps should be off, and xfeed closed. And you still see right tank drain only?
Do you have FSUIPC installed? Have you changed any fuel burn settings there?
Mike
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Post by jardx on Aug 3, 2019 19:45:00 GMT
Yes I had a total of 4 BPs on 2 for each wing none in the center as there was no usable fuel in the tank. Yes the crossfeed was off after the check/per the checklist.
Yes I have a registered copy of FSUIPC and no I have not touched anything on it related to fuel or engines the only parameter I play with is the joystick axis assignments in order to have a more realistic feel for thrust lever movement, I have the CH yoke that only has three levers one for the throttle one for planes with variable pitch props and one for mixture. On twin and tri jets I change the assignments so each lever controls the respective thrust lever.
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Post by jardx on Aug 3, 2019 20:25:36 GMT
After posting the last post just a little while ago I decided to repeat the engine run test and crossfeed check with both BP on in one of the tanks with usable fuel and then did a normal engine start with all BPs on in tanks with usable fuel with the crossfeed off/closed and this time the feed was correct, in the case of the test it was tank to engine with no usable fuel in the center, so that leads me to believe that I can not conduct the check the way that some companies taught which is the same as keeping the APU supplied with fuel after you get AC power on the buses which is you only were required to have one BP on, in the case of the company I am referring to, it was the right aft AC fuel pump to be able to check the crossfeed and supply the APU with fuel from the right main tank without using the DC start pump that is also in the right main tank for times when no external AC power is available.
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