Delta Air Lines DC-8

[comet45]

Constructed from HJG Library elements.
(Should there be smoke from the engines, is that an 'add on'?)
C45

[Klaus Hullermann]

Nice screenshot.

About the engine-smoke: Did you installed the engine-smoke effects files (there are two for the DC-8, one for the water-injection turbojets and one for all other turbofans)?

Did you try to press the 'i'-button on your keyboard (default keystroke for smoke in FS9/FS2004 and FSX)?

Klaus

[comet45]

No & no.
Thanks for your guidance.
I understand that N801E was built as a DC-8-10, then modified to a DC-8-50.
Do you know which of the 2 engine-smoke effect files is appropriate for this particular aircraft?
C45

[Klaus Hullermann]

If you're using/flying only the early water-injection DC-8s (Ship One and series 10), then you only need the 'fx_hjg_dc.8w.fx'-file installed into the effects-folder of your flightsim (FS9/FS2004 or FSX). Then you should have lots of black smoke as soon as the engines are at full power and the water injection is activated through the proper panel from HJG (the water injection is automatically turned off after about 2-3 minutes running).

Klaus

[comet45]

Ok, I'll try that & see what happens.
Thank you.
C45

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

I need to correct some of the above replied details .... whilst also taking advantage of this thread to make a full disclosure as follows ....

"IF" using FS2004 and FSX .... and "IF" (and "ONLY IF") using HJG supplied panels customized for our simulations .... and "IF" (once again "ONLY IF") one also has the HJG supplied Smoke Effects installed too .... then Smoke Effects, for "almost all of our own" simulations that require such are "auto-generating" when engine power is set to a high enough EGT indication to trigger these effects .... in excess of N2 80% from memory.

The above information is true for all HJG supplied B707/720/C-135 series, B727, CV-880, CV-990, CARAVELLE, DC-8, DC-9, and MERCURE 100 simulations.


PLEASE NOTE: In the case of the HJG supplied and water/methanol injected B367-80, B707-120/-138/and C-135A's .... as well as the similarly WI injected DC-8-10 SHIP ONE/-11/and -12 simulations too .... each these simulations (only) feature "Heavy Smoke Effects" (simulating emissions created by the temporary thrust augmentation resulting from water/methanol injection), but, as WI assisted thrust augmentation is available for a duration of "3 minutes only" (real world), the exhaust effects for "just these simulations (only)" will cease to function after that 3 minute duration is expired. It "IS NOT" then possible to engage any smoke effects until after engine shut down, at one's destination, and until one's next flight using the same simulation, and in the very same or another later FS session. That's the only limitation of Smoke Effects for "just the above mentioned HJG supplied simulations only" .... imposed by the fact that panel engine gauges can't be assigned 2 separate smoke effects files in order to result in constant, but much lighter, emissions (as we want to portray this at least) beyond expiry of the featured WI system.

Reference is made to the B707/C-135 related WI system within the B707 and C-135 Manuals I linked you to yesterday.

Reference is also made to the DC-8 related WI system within the following linked DC-8 manual.


HJG DC-8 PANEL & INSTALLATION & HANDLING NOTES
tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thread/8019/hjg-panel-installation-handling-notes


The WI system for our B707 and DC-8 simulations each work slight differently.


All other HJG supplied B707/720/C-135 series and DC-8 Smoke effects are "constant" as well as auto-generating too .... again provided our own customized panels for these simulations are used and sufficiently high an EGT indication is maintained .... along with use of the Smoke Effects we provide.


PLEASE NOTE ALSO: In the case of the HJG supplied MD-80 and MERCURE 100 simulations .... these simulations feature "standard/lighter smoke effects". For the MD-80's (only) these Smoke Effects are engaged/disengaged using keyboard command "I" .... the panels we offer for these simulations aren't our own and haven't ever been edited in accordance with HJG preferences which include the like of auto-generating emissions. HOWEVER .... the MERCURE 100 "DOES" feature auto-generating" and constant Smoke Effects .... again based on sufficiently high an EGT indication being maintained.


PLEASE NOTE ADDITIONALLY: In the case of the HJG supplied B707-700, B717-200, BAe 146/ARJ series, all CFM-56 powered C-135 series, DC-8-71/-72/-73, DC-10, L-1011 TRISTAR, and MD-90 simulations .... these simulations "DO NOT" (intentionally) feature Smoke Effects since the engines that power each these aircraft types are regarded as being "virtually" smokeless.


Mark C
AKL/NZ

[comet45]

Comprehensive coverage of the topic requiring comprehensive cogitation.
Thank you.
C45

[comet45]

After cogitation & downloading the correct Smoke Effects file, I ran the DC-8 out of KSEA.
I have to say Gentlemen, I am somewhat disappointed at the outcome.
With this volume of smoke I expected flames!
As it was the Seattle Police were inundated with 911 calls as I flew low overhead, obliterating the horizon!  
Nicely done HJG.
C45

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

All joking aside ....

That (what you're getting/seeing) is "precisely what it should be"

The heavy smoke and soot (not to mention "NOISE" too) was a classic trade mark of the early civil P&W JT3C-6 (and military JT3P and J57) turbo-jet engines of the late 1950's and is what resulted when using the "water/methanol injection" system to augment engine thrust for TO ....











By comparison .... the later P&W JT3D fan-jet engines (from the early 1960's) whilst still smokey, by today's standards, resulted in far less exhaust emissions and a little less noise too

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[comet45]

Stunning photos, particularly #2.
The question for me is why were the JT3c-6's so smoky?
Was it purely due to the water/methanol injection, or other factors such as, perhaps,  manufacturing tolerances for moving parts fits?
C45

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

It was Water Injection that was primarily responsible for it

The standard "DRY" thrust rating of the P&W JT3C-6 turbo-jet (and J-57 also) was "in the vicinity of" some 11,200 LBS thrust per engine (and that for the B367-80 even lower) .... subject to airport altitude and both air pressure and ambient temperature influences etc.

The B707 and DC-8-10/-11/-12 were quite heavy aircraft (for their day) and despite these engines being the most powerful available for civil use at the time (1958/59/60) .... they weren't really sufficiently powerful for civil safety tolerances "when operating at/near MGW" and without the use of TO thrust augmentation.

A Water Methanol solution was used to augment engine thrust .... by increasing density of the air passing through the engines .... and which thereby provided a temporary boost in engine thrust an which was used during TO only.

The Water Injection boosted engine thrust by approximately 7% per engine (again dependent on airport altitude and both air pressure and ambient temperature influences etc) .... resulting in a temporary "WET" thrust rating of around 13,000 LBS per engine .... but .... it also resulted in the "very heavy" smoke as evidenced per each of the above images. Beyond expiry of the Water/Methanol solution .... there'd be a consequential loss of engine thrust (again approximately 7% per engine) .... after which engine exhaust emissions were pretty much normal for these aircraft and for the day,

The boost in engine thrust was "temporary" (about 3 minutes only) .... simply because tanking capacity of these aircraft limited the volume of Water/Methanol solution, that could be accommodated, to sufficient for "just one TO only" .... and which caused problems during crew training exercises by limiting such to just "a single TO", and circuit, before having to return for replenishment of the WI system, in order for training the same crew to be further progressed

Using the HJG supplied B367-80, B707-120, B707-138, DC-8 SHIP ONE 1959, and DC-8-10 panels .... you'll note what I've described above, if using the WI system, and properly eyeballing engine gauges following TO.

As soon as the simulated Water/Methanol solution is exhausted .... the WI lamps will extinguish automatically, EPR and N1 indications will both suddenly reduce slightly, and the fireworks display/heavy black smoke will cease (if viewed externally).

Use my Basic Flying Guides, which are featured as the last section within each of my B707 and DC-8 manuals ("SECTION 9.0" for the B707's and C-135's or "SECTION 5.0" for the DC-8's) in order to deal with this, because if operating at/near MGW it "does" require prompt manual adjustment being applied to the climb profile .... or .... one can, and probably will, get into trouble and quite quickly !

Mark C
AKL/NZ