Plane veers left in flight and on the ground

[thrillsandchills]

I heard the solution was that I left the A/P (autopilot) on. I was flying the freeware version of a C150. (it received very good reviews...) I looked very carefully, and as far as I could tell, I couldn't find one on the panel; so I presume they weren't talking about the last plane I was in: the KLM MD11. Sure enough, the a/p was on. I turned it off, and I took it out for a "flight," I use that word loosely, then restarted the program.

Even after that, the problem still persists. I've played around with the vertical and horizontal wheels on the Ch Eclipse Yoke. I think they have something to do with Rudder and Aileron trim; but perhaps in the 150, they don't apply?

I also adjusted (prior to recalibration) the prop and mixture handles to fix the problem, but that didn't work out, either.

The tool you use to calibrate (as far as I could tell,) didn't calibrate the two wheels. But then again, maybe I'm missing something.

I've re-calibrated the yoke; all to no avail; then this morning, I did a complete re-install of 2004.

Unfortunately, all my efforts have not solved the problem. I also read that Shift+5 (keypad) centers all control surfaces. I did that too. No dice.

Has this happened to anyone else, (the veering left) and what did you do to solve it?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thrills And Chills.

[+mrfaosfx]

You may have to open up your joystick and check the prox sensors, one may be covered in dust.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Except in the line of "general FS commentary and advice" ....It's difficult for HJG to provide support for simulations that isn't responsible for releasing .... HOWEVER .... in the line of such "general commentary and advice" I can only suggest as follows ....

"IF" you're confident your controller device system isn't in need of calibration/recalibration .... or even replacement too .... and .... "IF" you're certain you've not inadvertently set/reset any degree of rudder/aileron trim which may be manipulated within the simulation you're using .... THEN .... I may be inclined toward looking at your FS "FUEL/PAYLOAD" loading/s plan for the aircraft you're using and which might, currently, be resulting in an imbalance which "WILL TYPICALLY" result in the simulation either veering off the RWY during T/O and/or it's intended flight track during manual flight.

Maybe your panel/simulation of choice has selectable fuel tank switches and you may, inadvertently be drawing fuel from one p[articular tank, rather than cross-feeding from all tanks (the critical ones at least) .... and which will also result in T/O and flight characteristics such as you describe.

In FS2004 .... you might need to look at, and adjust, your "P-FACTOR" and "TORQUE" options within FS .... under the "REALISM/SETTINGS & REALISM" option.

Another thing you can try also is loading a default MSFS aircraft type into you FS flying session first .... THEN .... select the add-on simulation of your choice .... particularly in regard to the simulation which is apparently giving you trouble in this case. "SOMETIMES", but not necessarily always, such issues, as you've described, can be cured by this practice. Loading a default MSFS aircraft first .... and/or between aircraft changes within the same FS flying session .... simply resets everything (panel and control surface-wise) to its default setting since FS, by default, will always apply the, set/selected, characteristics of the previous flight scenario to the following one .... although you may, still, need, to check, and adjust, FUEL/PAYLOAD loadings within FS and for your add-on aircraft of choice.

Again .... HJG can't, realistically, provide support for a simulation it hasn't been responsible for developing, but, the above suggestions may be "helpful" .... if not "the place to start your troubleshooting at least.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[garryrussell]

Always start FS with a default aeroplane

You went from an MD-11 into a Cessna 150...maybe not your problem but a bad thing to do as you need to reset the sim to default values which starting with a default aeroplane does.

[Herman]

Quite a change and also a huge difference ( from an MD 11 to Cessna 150) or is your C150 a military version of a jetliner??

If you are referring to the GA Cessna 150 then in fact you will have to deal with what Mark already points out the engine propellor P factor and torque effect.

This is always more pronounced during take-off and climb and you will always experience a considerable left turning tendency which has to be corrected by the application of some right rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line of the runway and on track once airborne. once you reach your cruising altitude and you reduce your power setting this turning tendency is pretty well gone.

In a jet powered aircraft this torque effect does not occur unless the engine power settings are unbalanced or due to reasons already mentioned above.

Herman

[walterleo]

Hi:

Besides the always recommendable start with the default FS-airplane you can try to start the takeoff roll with differential braking (F11 left F12 right) sometimes the nose-wheel rstraitens and as aerodynamic forces are sufficient at the rudder you can hold a straight line with the controls. Mostly after rotation the problem has disappeared and doesn't reappear after landing. Seems the position of the nose-wheel is the culprit. OR: sometimes a incorrect position of the wheels contact points.
BUT: As Hermann also explains: In T.O. Roll and climb a realistic simulation of a single propeller airplane (with US made engine which turns clockwise) should veer to the left, but that can be controlled by steering inputs. Very powerful single engine propeller airplanes like WW II fighters could not takeoff with full power the engines torque would have flipped them inverted. Other singles like the Beech Bonanza (the PPL pilots Cadillac) had a canted engine to counteract the torque effect at climb.

AND did you check the wind? If you had a crosswind from the right a light airplane happily veers first right and then left. A heavy one does that also but not immediately.

Kind regards

Walter

[thrillsandchills]

Jan 4, 2013 17:25:46 GMT Herman said:

Quite a change and also a huge difference ( from an MD 11 to Cessna 150) or is your C150 a military version of a jetliner??

If you are referring to the GA Cessna 150 then in fact you will have to deal with what Mark already points out the engine propellor P factor and torque effect.

This is always more pronounced during take-off and climb and you will always experience a considerable left turning tendency which has to be corrected by the application of some right rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line of the runway and on track once airborne. once you reach your cruising altitude and you reduce your power setting this turning tendency is pretty well gone.

In a jet powered aircraft this torque effect does not occur unless the engine power settings are unbalanced or due to reasons already mentioned above.

Herman

Thanks Herman for the reply.

I flew the MD-11 on the 30 December. My best guess is that I didn't fly the Commuter 150L Civil a/c (freeware) 1st or 2nd; and I've been trying to find a fix since the 3rd and 4th. (today.) So, it wasn't, Arrive at Schippol and fly a commuter flight to Rotterdam in the C150.

Actually, I changed locations after that. I've been flying from KSEA to KPWT (Bremmerton) It's just a short hop away, so it's a good practice run.

And then this happened.

This happened once before, my first time in the default Mooney. The veering to the left *not withstanding* things went ok, for flying a single engine of that caliber. Unfortunately, I can't remember the a/c I flew previous to the Mooney.

So when Mark suggests adjusting the torque and P factor, do you mean to adjust it up or down? and only this once or how will it play out, so to speak?

Thanks

Thrills and Chills

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

So when Mark suggests adjusting the torque and P factor, do you mean to adjust it up or down?

Simply because I, personally, are using a SAITEK X52 FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEM (comprising of a joystick and separate throttle quadrant) and don't have a YOKE AND PEDALS configuration as my FS control system of choice .... for "convenience" only (since I like to have at least one hand free for my joystick .... or keyboard .... or my "preferred beverage of choice" at any time of day .... I set/reduced my FS2004 "P-FACTOR" and "TORQUE sliders" to their absolute minimum detente within the FS2004 "REALISM/SETTINGS & REALISM" option as my own means of most favorably countering these "aerodynamic forces/effects". Doing this/Reducing these 2 settings (only) to their "absolute minimum" detente essentially turns off/cancels these effects/forces .... if they really bother you that much.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[walterleo]

Hi:

Friends I tried a circuit with the Mooney:
It veers to left as it should in T.O. and initial climb,
BUT: With one tick of rudder trim to the right that nearly disappears there are a switch and an indicator on the panel.
BUT don't forget to put the rudder trim into the middle after wards, if not you will have an airplane going to the right in flight.
The real C 150 didn't have a rudder trim, at least the old ones I flew. Therefore a bit of right rudder was imperative. In FS one can use the stick if "coordination" in FS is on. Would be a big NO NO in the real plane, as this hampers the climb rate in a critical moment.
Kind regards

Walter

P.S.: After all: didn't we want to fly airplanes and not to drive trains?

[thrillsandchills]

Jan 5, 2013 2:01:17 GMT aerofoto - HJG Admin said:

So when Mark suggests adjusting the torque and P factor, do you mean to adjust it up or down?

Simply because I, personally, are using a SAITEK X52 FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEM (comprising of a joystick and separate throttle quadrant) and don't have a YOKE AND PEDALS configuration as my FS control system of choice .... for "convenience" only (since I like to have at least one hand free for my joystick .... or keyboard .... or my "preferred beverage of choice" at any time of day .... I set/reduced my FS2004 "P-FACTOR" and "TORQUE sliders" to their absolute minimum detente within the FS2004 "REALISM/SETTINGS & REALISM" option as my own means of most favorably countering these "aerodynamic forces/effects". Doing this/Reducing these 2 settings (only) to their "absolute minimum" detente essentially turns off/cancels these effects/forces .... if they really bother you that much.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

At this stage of my navigational/ aeronautical development, the taking of practice flights so that I can work on my climbs, descents, leveling off, and trimming the a/c to maintain the proper
ROC or ROD, as the case may be.

If the aircraft was only veering to the left on the ground, I'd let the whole thing pass, and never say a word. The problem is a) imagine you are lined up for a visual approach and are trying to stay within the limits of the glideslope. This is made a lot easier by selecting Aircraft>Visual Flight Path. After you fill in all the info, you will see the red boxes, that defines the vertical and horizontal limits of the g/s.

Having said that, with the aircraft veering off to the left, in the air, makes practicing trimming for descent and staying on the G/S makes it much more difficult to stay lined up, and fly a stabilized approach.

My personal opinion is, get the basics down first; as mentioned above. Then, once you've mastered those, you can introduce things like "P-factor" and "Torque."

And B) I would say 2 or 3 months ago, I changed the Realism settings from "Easy" to "Medium" and during all that time, I never experienced any of the problems we're talking about today.

Also, after reading Mark's post this morning, in response to my reply, about reducing the torque and p-factor values all the way to the left (more or less)... Not only did I do that but I went a step further; I reduced the realism to "Easy" and engaged the "Autorudder."

With all those changes, the Mooney still veered off course in mid air.

So, I'm thoroughly confused as to why (for now) eliminate this "extra feature" ;D of FS9.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

WELL .... I've just tried it myself .... using the FS2004 MOONEY BRAVO .... and precisely according to the settings I've been suggesting all-along and which, for me, are as follows ....

- GENERAL = FULL/REALISTIC
- P FACTOR = 0
- TORQUE = 0
- CRASH TOLERANCE = FULL/REALISTIC

.... and which also, then, result in a "CUSTOM" setting appearing within the SETTINGS/REALISM section of my FS2004 CURRENT REALISM SETTINGS option.

I also keep my AUTO RUDDER option selected "OFF".

I experienced no veering to the left .... or right .... during, or after, T/O, or during level cruise during manual controlled flight .... and nor did any such symptom occur after setting, and then disconnecting the AP .... and not did I experience anything, whatsoever, un-toward, during my manually controlled approach to landing either.

"IF" you're experiencing the issues, you say, you're experiencing .... then there's obviously something else that not doing right, and haven't told us, or that we can't so easily ascertain (bearing in mind what I said at the beginning though in regard to support for non-HJG simulations and basic FS advice though) from the information you're providing us.

I suggest you .... (a) follow/try, precisely (this time), the SETTINGS/REALISM options I've been suggesting all-along and most of which I've repeated and/or further clarified for you above .... and (b) recheck your controller device calibrations (all axis) both within its WINDOWS based calibration profile as well as that within FS also. Any misconfiguration/calibration of your controller device would not affect just the MOONY BRAVO, but rather, it's likely affect every FS aircraft you have installed .... FS default or add-on.

I can only confirm that, on the basis of my own advice (above), and in accordance with the way "I fly within FS" .... there's absolutely no problem, at all, with the default MSFS supplied MOONEY BRAVO simulation.

There's not, really, much more I can say/add I'm afraid

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[walterleo]

Jan 6, 2013 0:27:15 GMT thrillsandchills said:

but I went a step further; I reduced the realism to "Easy" and engaged the "Autorudder."

With all those changes, the Mooney still veered off course in mid air.

So, I'm thoroughly confused as to why (for now) eliminate this "extra feature" ;D of FS9.

Try another joystick or plug it simply off and try a flight using the keyboard controls. Others here advised also that the problem could be your joystick.

Walter

[thrillsandchills]

Jan 6, 2013 6:11:04 GMT aerofoto - HJG Admin said:

WELL .... I've just tried it myself .... using the FS2004 MOONEY BRAVO .... and precisely according to the settings I've been suggesting all-along and which, for me, are as follows ....

- GENERAL = FULL/REALISTIC
- P FACTOR = 0
- TORQUE = 0
- CRASH TOLERANCE = FULL/REALISTIC

.... and which also, then, result in a "CUSTOM" setting appearing within the SETTINGS/REALISM section of my FS2004 CURRENT REALISM SETTINGS option.

I also keep my AUTO RUDDER option selected "OFF".

I experienced no veering to the left .... or right .... during, or after, T/O, or during level cruise during manual controlled flight .... and nor did any such symptom occur after setting, and then disconnecting the AP .... and not did I experience anything, whatsoever, un-toward, during my manually controlled approach to landing either.

"IF" you're experiencing the issues, you say, you're experiencing .... then there's obviously something else that not doing right, and haven't told us, or that we can't so easily ascertain (bearing in mind what I said at the beginning though in regard to support for non-HJG simulations and basic FS advice though) from the information you're providing us.

I suggest you .... (a) follow/try, precisely (this time), the SETTINGS/REALISM options I've been suggesting all-along and most of which I've repeated and/or further clarified for you above .... and (b) recheck your controller device calibrations (all axis) both within its WINDOWS based calibration profile as well as that within FS also. Any misconfiguration/calibration of your controller device would not affect just the MOONY BRAVO, but rather, it's likely affect every FS aircraft you have installed .... FS default or add-on.

I can only confirm that, on the basis of my own advice (above), and in accordance with the way "I fly within FS" .... there's absolutely no problem, at all, with the default MSFS supplied MOONEY BRAVO simulation.

There's not, really, much more I can say/add I'm afraid

Mark C
AKL/NZ

Hiya,

Sorry for the late reply.

I calibrated the yoke directly through the windows interface and made sure to follow your advise.

I have only tested the Mooney, but with the "Torque" and "P-factor" zeroed out, plus the calibration through windows, things seemed to have worked themselves out.

Give yourselves (at HJG) a big group hug: your planes preformed well before I did any of the above...

Thanks for helping me out with this; even though it wasn't an issue with an HJG produced model.

Thrills And Chills