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Post by michael on Apr 7, 2014 19:44:37 GMT
Hi let me introduce myself I'm Mike and I am a 4 smoker fanatic, with the DC8 being my favourite. I think about the DC8 every day, sad I know.
For many years I've been aware that all varients of your otherwise wonderfull DC8 contained a model error, but I did not mention it because I thought you was aware of it but had no plans of updating the model. However with the recent update of the model for AI use I've noticed that the error although solved by making the tail one piece the texturing is incorrect and does not represent this great aircraft. I'm guessing you are probably not aware of the error after all so let point out that the tail to rudder proportion should be 50/50 percent and not more tail as on your model.
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Post by christrott on Apr 7, 2014 19:52:45 GMT
Can you show examples of what you're talking about? I'm looking at pictures of the real airplane next to a screenshot of one of the HJG DC-8's and don't see what you're speaking of.
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Post by michael on Apr 7, 2014 21:12:20 GMT
Hi Chris I will try and post some examples tomorrow but for now I'll post the Nasa bird. You will notice on the original plane the proportion is almost equal from top to bottom of the tail, I have drawn a couple of red lines to help show this more clearly (note the rudder is slightly turned to the right giving a slightly smaller area). If you have a close look at any HJG 8's you will notice that the tail textures align with the rudder cut on the models so i will save time and just upload the actual texture of the HJG nasa bird, forgetting about how acurate the texture of the nasa logo is, the important part is the ratio. Take a look at the red lines, notice how there is alot more tail than rudder, especially the lower section. The purple line is a more acurate ratio for the original aircraft. I have an interesting story which probably explains how this error happened in the first place. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 7, 2014 21:44:36 GMT
Your observations/comments are welcome .... and appreciated also .... truly  "ALL" .... FS models have "their little design quirks/inaccuracies" .... of course  .... and HJG's current flightline of 3D/UI DC8 models (the AI's are an entirely seperate project by my colleague Paul HAAK) are no exception to this either (more-so probably given the age of their development which predates even FS2002), and therefore, these remain precisely the way they are since last worked on .... during 2004. There are no plans to update any of these 3D/UI DC8 models (we can't anyway without the source code) .... and nor are there (now) any plans to introduce newer 3D/UI DC8 models to HHG either .... I'm sorry  Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by Dee Waldron - HJG on Apr 9, 2014 1:18:54 GMT
In fact, the heritage of all of our DC-8s goes all the way back to FS5 and were originally built with BAO's Aircraft Factory v5.0 (often refer to as AF5). As each new design software utility was introduced, I simply imported the old model into the new software and "rebuilt" it. Moveable control surfaces were not introduced until late in the FS98 time frame when Aircraft Animator came on the scene. At that time, the model(s) were being built with the AF99 software. As good as that software was, it was not spot on accurate and some fudge-factor had to be included in the dimensions throughout the model. Those dimensions were carried forward into the next 2 versions of FSDS (Flight Sim Design Studio) I was comfortable with the slight inaccuracies then, and I still am.
I'm retired from the model building part of this hobby now. I'd rather spend my free time flying! For anyone that is not satisfied with our DC-8s (or any of our models!), I challenge you to build one yourself. But please be aware before you embark on such an endeavor, it's going to take a huge time commitment to plan and produce.
Cheers!
Dee
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Post by tristar - HJG on Apr 9, 2014 22:10:38 GMT
In fact, the heritage of all of our DC-8s goes all the way back to FS5 and were originally built with BAO's Aircraft Factory v5.0 (often refer to as AF5). As each new design software utility was introduced, I simply imported the old model into the new software and "rebuilt" it. Moveable control surfaces were not introduced until late in the FS98 time frame when Aircraft Animator came on the scene. At that time, the model(s) were being built with the AF99 software. As good as that software was, it was not spot on accurate and some fudge-factor had to be included in the dimensions throughout the model. Those dimensions were carried forward into the next 2 versions of FSDS (Flight Sim Design Studio) I was comfortable with the slight inaccuracies then, and I still am. I'm retired from the model building part of this hobby now. I'd rather spend my free time flying! For anyone that is not satisfied with our DC-8s (or any of our models!), I challenge you to build one yourself. But please be aware before you embark on such an endeavor, it's going to take a huge time commitment to plan and produce. Cheers! Dee Hi Dee. And I still have the original Project Freeware AF5 DC-8's AFX;s along with some 737's, 1-11,s DC-10's, L1011s etc. Not a lot of use nowadays, but memories just the same. Good in their day of limited resource, but not even AI material in todays world. Paul |
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Post by Dee Waldron - HJG on Apr 10, 2014 7:49:15 GMT
Yeah, Kim Simalink at Project Freeware was the original designer. Boy, that was eons ago! Dee |
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Post by M.I.B. on Apr 10, 2014 20:05:03 GMT
Given their age, I'd say they're surprisingly accurate even by today's standards..and they're FREE! Take a look at these a lot more modern, payware simulations: LINK, LINK, LINK, LINK, LINK. Go figure  |
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Post by michael on Apr 12, 2014 14:00:04 GMT
Sorry Dee I'm not criticising your DC8, I was just wondering if you was aware of the error because Douglas released scale plans of the dc8 with a similar tail-rudder ratio as the current HJG model but wind trials prooved they needed to increase the size of the rudder for the production model. I know your DC8 goes back long ways, I'm not sure but I think his name was Bill Anderson who released a tutorial including a model of the DC8, it is possible he used the first Douglas plans. I'm not sure if anyone is a model maker here but even Revell used the original plans on the model kit they produced.
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Post by tristar - HJG on Apr 12, 2014 17:28:09 GMT
Sorry Dee I'm not criticising your DC8, I was just wondering if you was aware of the error because Douglas released scale plans of the dc8 with a similar tail-rudder ratio as the current HJG model but wind trials prooved they needed to increase the size of the rudder for the production model. I know your DC8 goes back long ways, I'm not sure but I think his name was Bill Anderson who released a tutorial including a model of the DC8, it is possible he used the first Douglas plans. I'm not sure if anyone is a model maker here but even Revell used the original plans on the model kit they produced. Hi Michael. It was Brain Quayle who did the AF5 building a DC-8-50 course. Like most people that was the first AF5 model I build followed up by a 707 for Project freeware that was unfortunately, never released. Brian used a real DC-8 along with plans (probably those Douglas ones). AF5 was hard work compared with modern building tools and getting those glue templates working to avoid bleed through was an art that not many mastered. I still have a folder somewhere with a print out of those lessons. took an age to download from CompuServe back then!! Paul |
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Post by Dee Waldron - HJG on Apr 13, 2014 7:01:41 GMT
FSforum on Compuserve! LOL! Those were the days, I'm here to tell ya!!! Dee |
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Post by christrott on Apr 14, 2014 15:08:57 GMT
I remember when Dee sent me the AF99 files for the DC-8 so I could do mods on the model for my VA repainting "company" many moons ago. It was my first intro to doing model modification (mainly texture remapping for specific liveries) and I basically gave up after that because I realized I wasn't cut out for it. That model has been through a lot over the years and for it to still look as good as many "native" FSX models is a testament to the quality Dee built with. |
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.... and HJG's current flightline of 3D/UI DC8 models (the AI's are an entirely seperate project by my colleague Paul HAAK) are no exception to this either (more-so probably given the age of their development which predates even FS2002), and therefore, these remain precisely the way they are since last worked on .... during 2004.
