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Post by M.I.B. on Apr 20, 2014 19:17:35 GMT
Good day crew,
I've done a few test flights with the upgraded HJG TriStar simulations and it performed flawlessly, the autoland works like a charm!! However, today I had my first "commercial" flight with the upgraded TriStar (L-1011-50), KLAX - PHNL, using the CORRECT panel for L-1011-50(tape engine gauges). The problem started when tanks 2A and 2B emptied -> for some unknown reason to me, engine nr 2 shut down! I managed to restart it in flight after a few minutes. The other 2 tanks (1 and 3) still had plenty of fuel and all valves/crossfeeds/fuel pumps were open, so engine nr 2 should have continued to receive fuel with no problems even after tanks nr 2A and 2B emptied.
Also I didn't really understand the tanking config; so the L-1011 actually has 3 tanks, but the panel was originally designed to have 4 tanks? And if so, tanks nr 2A and 2B are actually meant to represent one single tank (2)? And if this all true, why did the original developer place 4 tanks in the panel in stead of 3?
One more thing: Why, even if filling all 3 tanks in the MSFS fuel dialogue, panel tanks nr 2A and 2B will only be about half full?
Thank you very much!
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 20, 2014 23:00:49 GMT
I'll start from back to front in response to your queries  What you see is, probably, due to the fact we've had to use the same 2 pairs of fuel quantity guages for each of the 4 L1011 panel versions. These pairs of instruments each show identical measurements .... up to "35" (X 1000 LBS) for tanks "2A" and "2B" .... and up to "70" (X 1000 LBS) for tanks "1" and "3". Any "perceived" discrepency .... in regard to why the each of the 2 pairs of fuel quantity guages don't indicate "completely full" on their gauge faces whilst each of the 3 assigned fuel tanks are completely "full" .... is probably for this particular reason. This following image shows thes default fuel indications for the L1011-100 F .... and prior to any adjustment ....  Then this following image shows these fuel indications also for the L1011-100 F .... but .... after the recommended adjustments  As one can see the variation isn't that great at all  To provide anything more better would probably have required development of separate panels for each individual L1011 version represented by HJG .... featuring separate fuel quantity guage faces that read precisely in accordance with the assigned maximum fuel tank capacities compiled into each individual L1011 simulation .... BUT .... it wasn't, really, practical for us to be able do this .... at least not this time around. The configuration we host here is mostly dictated by what's been compilied by each of the original 2 author/s (in repect of both panel and FDE configurations) .... long before HJG ever intended getting into the L1011 act. The panel we host was actually intended for use with an entirely different L1011 simulation and not the VISTERLINERS/Erick CANTU version represented by HJG. To this extent HJG simply accepted the configuration/s supplied (it must be remembered that HJG is, really, just a smally group of volunteer enthusiasts with limited skills/resources) .... AND THEN .... we just modified what we could, easily, without risking the possibility of stuffing everything else .... the end result being these latest version L1011 files which we've just released. The fuel configuration/s represented in each of these latest release files remain precisely the same as they were when first released back in 2009 (I think it was) .... since no further work has been undertaken by HJG in this respect. The purpose of this particular update was, essentially, to try'n provide a better and more fully-featured AP that better representats that of L1011 TRISTAR aircraft. Throgought "literally hundreds" of pre-release tests using these L1011 files (both in original and this latest format) I, personally, haven't ever experienced any such problem/shutdown, but, then again, I've never run-down fuel resources to the extent you imply. "THIS" (what, you say, you experienced) shouldn't happen though .... obviously. I'm aware of at least one other such uncommanded engine shutdown issue having been reported recently, but, in regard to another HJG simulation (one of the DC8's in fact), however, it was also determined that another add-on program (some form of PAX load related untility .... I believe), might have been the cause of that particular situation through some degree of conflict between it and the HJG simulation. In the absence of any such problem having been previously experienced/reported then I wonder if it possible that your particular issue, with these L1011's, might be the result of a similaqr conflict/interaction ? Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by M.I.B. on Apr 21, 2014 0:36:56 GMT
Thank you so much for your kind help, very much appreciated! I do have plenty of addons of all kinds, although no such PAX-related stuff I've since took the same TriStar up for some tests, tried to apply a configuration as close to the one I had when the engine died as possible, I did multiple tests and it worked just fine, no more engine death, who knows, should be just a passing ghost, hopefully. It happened at 16x time acceleration!! I rarely do that, but when you gotta be THERE and THEN at the German class, you gotta be there and then, even if you're a TriStar pilot in mid flight  Now I'm experiencing a new headache - I can't get the hang of the FE fuel configuration, which tank feeds which engine and what crossfeed does what...For instance:  In this configuration all engines are running (notice that tanks nr 2A and 2B are empty), if I close the horizontal crossfeed valve, engine nr 2 shuts down, I find this strange as all that crossfeed does in this case is to link tank nr 1 to tank nr 3, it doesn't link (as I see it) any engine to any tank -in this configuration-. The way I see it, the nr 2 engine should be dead in this config, or if it works, it shouldn't shut down if I close that crossfeed. Am I missing something? Or if I'm correct (one way or another) is this just a limitation? If so, I can live with it, no problem.  One more thing, turning the tank fuel pumps off won't shut down the engines, is it normal? |
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Post by M.I.B. on Apr 21, 2014 1:19:46 GMT
Another example:  Tank 1 and 3 are empty, only tanks nr 2A and 2B can feed all engines. Only the left crossfeed valve is closed, yet engine nr 1 has shut down; shouldn't it be able to receive fuel either from tank 2A or tank 2B via the right-->center crossfeed valve circuit? |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 21, 2014 2:49:27 GMT
Accelerated time mode "CAN" cause various problems for some simulations. I've always configured "EVERYTHING" as can be seen per each of the 2 images accompanying my original reply posting on this thread and in doing that .... be my procedure,or even the simulation, right or wrong .... I've never, ever, run into any problem/s, so, I recommend simply adopting "IT"/my proedure .... and "TO HELL" with any other I can say as follows though .... - With the fuel system configured as per my own, personal, preferences .... "IF" either of the 3 EMERG FLOW VALVES" (located below the "CROSSFEEDS" section of the F/E sub panel) for ENG1/2/3 are selected (mouse clicked) OFF, then, this action will result in the corresponding engine shutting-down. - With the fuel system configured as per my own, personal, preferences .... "IF" either of the red covers on the ENG1/2/3 "FUEL MASTER" switches (located at the bottom of the "STARTERS" section of the F/E sub panel) are selected (mouse clicked) OFF, then, this action, also, will result in the corresponding engine shutting down. - With the fuel system configured as per my own, personal, preferences .... "IF" either of the FUEL & IGNITION swithches (located at the bottom of the "STARTERS" section of the CP sub panel) are selected OFF (to their "up" positions), then, this action, as well, will result in the corresponding engine shutting down. Short of "death by starvation" (running out of fuel completely), or, other intentional shuttingdown of any particular engine .... THEN .... these are the only actions/sittions, I'm aware of, that will result in engine shutdowns/failures using either of the 4 L1011 TRISTAR panels currently offered by HJG. It would appear so. I "suspect", you're, possibly, assuming a degree of complexity, if not fidelity also, that hasn't actually been replicated into any of these L1011 panels According to my own testing .... TANKS 1 and 3 coorespond with the LEFT AUX and RiGHT AUX fuel tanks within the FS Fuel & Payload plan and which feed engines # 1 and # 3 .... respectively. TANKS 2A and 2B correspond with the CENTER (only) tank within the FS Fuel & Payload plan and which feeds engine # 2 (only) .... albeit that this particular tank is actually represented by 2 individual gauges on the F/E panel (that's just the way this particular panel was designed .... for another L1011 simulation). So far as I'm aware .... the fuel quantity displayed by each of the TANKS 2A and 2B gauges should add up to the mass/total contained within the CENTER tank within the FS Fuel & Payload plan at any one moment of time. I just "crossfeed" everything .... for additional security There may, possibly, be a a limitation, or 2, here (with 1 or 2 indications possibly not corresponding precisely with others), BUT, that's something we're all just going to have to live with .... I'm afraid  So long as everything's configured as I've been recommending .... THEN .... no major issues should ever result and everyone should still be able to have "A LOT OF FUN"Once again .... the main purpose behind this latest round of HJG L1011 TRISTAR simulation updates was the introduction of the new AP system .... before anything else Whether or not any further update might occur in the future .... and what these might imply if it does .... I can't say, so, I make absolutely no promises either way. Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by M.I.B. on Apr 21, 2014 13:17:33 GMT
GOT IT Thanks again for your valuable input! This is freeware stuff and considering that, they're "pretty darn good", so I can live with certain systems not being fully replicated or having to leave them alone, as they are, and not to mess with them |
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Post by christrott on Apr 21, 2014 14:05:17 GMT
Mark, the panel while programmed to work with another L1011, was designed per the real L1011 FE panel. There really are 2 "Center" tanks (2A and 2B) that are separately gauged. For whatever reason, Lockheed decided to separate the Centerwing tanks which are normally cross-connected and measured as a single tank. While it theoretically removed some duplicate fuel lines (because you'd still need the crossfeed lines in addition to the intertank lines), they created additional complexity in the system should a pump fail and made fueling the airplane even more interesting to the point they actually had to put the fueling chart on the inside of the fuel panel door so fuelers would ensure the automatic system was working and to properly shutoff the tanks when you reverted to manual fueling just after starting because the automatic system failed (the Boeing 747's "automatic" system has the same problem). I wish I'd kept a copy of the printed chart from when I was fueling like I did for the DC-8 because it was definitely interesting to go over.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Apr 21, 2014 19:43:53 GMT
"NO PROBLEM" Dorel And .... I thought so too Chris (2X center tanks which agrees with the F/E sub panel configuration), but, didn't have any information on this .... SO .... held off ststing definitively either way It could be possible/practical to adjust the current tanking within the CFG file .... in the future .... BUT .... I make no promises at all in this regard .... preferring, instead, to leave that up to the individual in whom I "most trust" in regard to these matters. We'll see what happens anyway Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by christrott on Apr 22, 2014 0:06:33 GMT
Hehe, not a problem. Like I said, I don't understand why they split the tank into two totally separate tanks when everyone else treated them as one, but that's what they did, so that's how it rolls. |
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