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Post by Peter Liddell - HJG Admin on Nov 21, 2014 16:21:24 GMT
Children Express was a one day special marking for a press conference and MAYBE a flight JFK-MCO in 72. I say maybe because there are no pics of it in FL, and the in flight pics from the article seem to show a 727 interior though it's not 100% clear.
Children Express was a predecessor of the Children's Make a Wish Foundation. In January 72 they flew 50 long term patients aged 6-14 from New York area hospitals and their families to Florida for the day.
The only references I've ever seen is a 2 part article in Eastern's in flight(?) magazine from 72. Shows the Dc-8 (N8762) at JFK behind the media podium with a Children Express sign seemingly painted on the plane where the officials gave a speech, then pics of the kids in the terminal. Then a couple in flight pics but again it doesn't clearly show a DC-8, overhead bins are Boeing style, an all economy 727-200 would make sense for about 150-160 people (appox 50 patients, 1 or 2 parents/guardians + a few siblings and 10 medical staff that went along). Then the kids doing stuff in Florida (Gatorworld, Cape Canaveral and Daytona Speedway, no Disney), and then shows them back in NYC holding a thank you card.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 13:54:50 GMT
Peter,
Thanks for interesting explanations on Children Express livery of Eastern.
Regards,
Aharon
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Post by Peter Liddell - HJG Admin on Nov 24, 2014 21:27:19 GMT
Sorry I haven't updated this sooner, and I don't know when I'll be able to get around to it. I've had a horrible weekend due to a bad reaction to this year's influenza vaccine which i had on Saturday morning, all over joint pain and fatigue, never had this severe of a reaction before. I almost didn't go to work today... If I feel better tonight I might get 1 or 2 fixed but I'm not going to push it too much.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 24, 2014 21:31:45 GMT
Just "take your time" Peter .... and I hope you recover soon We appreciate what you´re doing Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 23:23:09 GMT
Peter,
It is NO problem. Take your time!! Get well!!!!!!!
Regards,
Aharon
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Post by Peter Liddell - HJG Admin on Nov 25, 2014 0:58:07 GMT
thanks all...
Anyways the changes in the doors is apparently the least of my worries...
So the #2 door looks to of been "added" between 69-70 somewhere... some of the fleet have the first 4 windows on the port side, some don't...
So as of now I have these to do...
8778 PAris Airshow 1967 - done 8776 no door all windows and forward flag 1970 - done 8775 as delivered with #2 door 1969 - done 8773 as delivered 1968 - done 8772 with #2 door, all windows and forward flag 1969 8771 with #2 door, not all windows and forward flag 1970 8770 with #2 door, not all windows and aft flag 1970 - done 8766 with #2 door all windows and forward flag 1970 - done
Plus the 63PFs...only 2 i can find thankfully... 8760 with forward flag 8756 with aft flag
yea i'm a stickler for my own punishment...
edit: A few updates based on more reasearch.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 25, 2014 3:33:02 GMT
That´s one of those "wonderful things" about DC8´s .... especially the "SUPERS" .... the window/door configuration on msny these aircraft varied in accordance with airline customer spècificatios.
Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by Peter Liddell - HJG Admin on Nov 26, 2014 2:32:24 GMT
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Post by Peter Liddell - HJG Admin on Nov 26, 2014 2:59:08 GMT
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 26, 2014 13:27:17 GMT
"GREAT STUFF" Peter I guess that explains why some of the JAL/JAA operated DC8-61´s lscked door 2L and 2R as well .... .... since some of those aircraft were acquired from EAL during the early 1970´s. Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by Peter Liddell - HJG Admin on Nov 27, 2014 13:34:36 GMT
It's honestly really confusing about those doors Mark... Some didn't have them at all until they were leased off/sold off Some seem to of been delivered with them. and still more seem to of had them ADDED in mid 69 to mid 70... or at least activated... But there is no rhyme, reason or order to them... I thought maybe the original order didn't specify them since EA was going to use them on the CAB awarded routes to the west coast and then when LBJ overruled that and EA was stuck with them added the extra doors for high density seating... but even THAT doesn't fit the available pics and info... really very weird detail!
And even more weird when you try to figure out the port side window arrangement changes!
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 27, 2014 14:50:12 GMT
That´s one of many reasons why I just "LOVE THE DC8´s" So much variety among them .... including among their flightdecks too. I guess whether or not some of these aircraft (these -61´s in paticular) featured what was traditionally a door 2L and 2R might depend upon how these aircraft were actually configured for those with whom thy flew .... since I understand that FAA regulations dictate the number of required doors/exits ron any aircraft based on its PAX capacity, and in order to enable complete evacuation of the aircraft within 90 seconds, or so, in cases of emergencyies. When BOEING began producing B707-320C´s with incrased PAX capacity (I think this might have exceeded 180 PAX per some airline configurations) .... then these aircraft featured an additional emergency exit located around the mid-setion of the aft fuselage section and half-way between the 2 over-wing and the principle rear fuselage exits. EAL´s DC8-61 configurations wre probably dictated by somethig similar .... and even possibly limited by it too in the absence of additional exits .... I suppose. I imagine that window configurations, on DC8´s in particular, were also largely dictated by PAX seating configurations and the location of on-board service fascilities too .... such as galleys and nuts houses .... all of which can vary quite markedly according to the various customised requirements of many airlines/operators Maek C BOG/CO
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Post by Peter Liddell - HJG Admin on Nov 27, 2014 16:39:19 GMT
I've only ever seen 2 seating maps for the EA super 60s, one 220Y/63PF(MAF config) and the other 32F/170Y as the delivery config for the -61... don't know if they were operated in that config as that's the fitout spec, may of even changed prior to delivery. I've been spending the last few days at work between work looking up everything I can find on Eastern's DC-8-60 orders and operations... it's a mess to say the least. The -63s all had the #2 door, and that makes sense since they were ordered/converted options specifically to fill the MAF contract role, also why they are the odd PF version, cargo floor but no cargo door (that apparently cause Douglas some grief as they had to re-engineer some of the floor panels as the original cargo floor design was designed with access via the cargo door for large pieces to be installed). But the -61s... I will make a guesstimation that the #2 was added or activated when the aircraft were converted to all Y... however that doesn't explain: EA DC8-61 N8776 at SNNThat looks like an all Y config with the extra windows, and it being in Shannon I would guess it's on a MAF contract, but no way to be sure i guess?
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 27, 2014 17:35:49 GMT
I suppose the cargo floor, but, without the actual cargo door, might have made these aircraft somewhat lighter .... and possibly more valuable for resale too as well as also being a relatively cheap pure freight conversions when/if the door was later added. I specualate also that apart from its MAF contracts EAL might have looked upon the DC8-61´s and -63´s as an interim aircraft types prior to the delivery of it´s L1011´s (I think the company was also a contender for the B747-100 at around the same perriod but opted out of these in favour of the L1011 .... although EAL did lease some B747-100´s from PAN AM during the early 1970´s and prior to its L1011 deliveries .... if I´m not mistaken) .... after which point I think they started off-loading their DC8-61´s and -63´s quite rapidly. I haven´t checked where they all went (I could do .... if I had more time), but, I do know that some of their -61´s went to JAL .... and were also later operated by its JAA subsidiary. As for EAL DC8-61 and -63 deliveries being "a mess" .... YEAH I noted that too whilst I was looking up data on the Paris Air Show aircraft last Friday. I noted in particular that the -61´s were all delivered right out of their registration sequences. I can only attribute that to "possibliy" being some indication of the difficulties that McDonnell-Douglas suddenly found itself in during the late 1960´s, and on account of the escalation of the Vietnam war and the parts shortages that this then imposed upon its Dc8 and DC9 production lines .... with some aircraft comming off various stages of the line only to have their completion, and delivery, delayed through the unavailabity of various parts (including engines) .... all due to the military production build-up. I´m only "guessing" .... of course I think you could, and possibly should, be able to write a very good book in the future Peter .... about the history and operations of EAL Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 20:18:16 GMT
Eastern DC-8-61 on combat duty in South Vietnam
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