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Post by caiqueabrao on Mar 12, 2016 18:46:58 GMT
Hi guys, first of all I'm not complaning, I just want find a clue to help solve my issue:
I was flying the DC-8-50 Series and noticed that when I push the joystick the aircraft immediately start a slight climb, something between 100-300ft/min, then after some seconds start to descend.
Even when in a climb, if the joystick is pushed the plane first increase the climb then start to descend.
Same when I pull the joystick, the aircraft first descend then climb.
This situation depend of the speed that I push/pull the joystick, more speed mean more ft/min, and doens't depend of aircraft configuration, clean/full flaps, gear up or down and etc...
This strange behaviour occurs only when I use the elevator, with the elevator trim the situation seems normal.
This situation also happens in the new version of DC85 FDE, I also noticed the same behaviour in -62, -61 and -63 seems to have less influence of this behaviour.
Any clue?
Caique
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Mar 12, 2016 19:48:29 GMT
Are you using FSX or FS2004 ? What DC-8 panel/s are you using ? Are you using the DC-8 panels from this/the HJG website .... or other offerings ? Have you assigned any non-HJG supplied modules/FS programs to your DC-8 simulations ? Are you loading the MSFS CESSNA .... or .... other default MSFS aircraft "prior to" selecting your DC-8 version of choice ? When did you last recalibrate your joystick/controller device ? Are you using FSUIPC (technically speaking it's not necessary to run any of these simulations, but, is required in order for the WX Radar to work only) even in "unlicenced form" ? Really need more information from you in regard to this  "During AP controlled flight" .... you should be using the AP CLIMB/DESCEND thumb wheel (in our panels) in order to set, and maintain/adjust, climb pitch .... or .... in order to set the AP ALT HLD function .... or to set, and maintain/adjust, descent pitch .... rather than your controller device. "NO CHANGES" .... whatsoever .... have been applied to any of these DC-8 simulations (panels/gauges or FDE) that might possibly affect pitch trim stability during either AP or manual flight control .... since it was always perfectly stable to start with. Bearing this in mind .... I'd be inclined to look more closely at your controller device .... and/or .... try installing FSUIPC (even in "unlicenced form" .... with it's MINIMUM DEFAULTS" only option selected) since it "IS" known to help resolve some otherwise difficult to explain/pin-point AP related issues in any simulation on some systems. Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by caiqueabrao on Mar 12, 2016 21:31:24 GMT
Are you using FSX or FS2004 ?FS2004 What DC-8 panel/s are you using ?Aircraft/panel assigned corretly: DC85 use -50 panel, -61 aircraft use -61 panel and etc... Are you using the DC-8 panels from this/the HJG website .... or other offerings ?From HJG wesite. Have you assigned any non-HJG supplied modules/FS programs to your DC-8 simulations ?No. I tested the plane/panel, downloded from here, in another computer with a clean FS2004 instalation and another joystick. Same issue. Are you loading the MSFS CESSNA .... or .... other default MSFS aircraft "prior to" selecting your DC-8 version of choice ?Yes. When did you last recalibrate your joystick/controller device ?5 minutes ago. And I did this a lot of times in my tests. Are you using FSUIPC (technically speaking it's not necessary to run any of these simulations, but, is required in order for the WX Radar to work only) even in "unlicenced form" ?Yes. For another questions: The issue occurs in manual flight, without use of AP or after use of AP. Another planes installed in my simulator, even HJG planes, doesn't have the same issue, I have tested with B707 right now. For clarify, this issue was present in the old DC8-50 FDE version and still occur in the new FDE. I ask to a friend of mine to install and test the airplanes/panels in his machine, he noticed the same issue. Read more: tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thread/8026/dc-pitch-climb-descend-issue?page=1#ixzz42j0aqcNr
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Mar 12, 2016 21:43:25 GMT
You seem .... according to your responses .... to have done everything correctly/that was necessary to be done .... so far as I can see.
The only problem here though is that i cannot replicate any such issue .... and nor was any such issue observed, or reported, during our extensive pre-release testing program for each of these simulations .... and nor have I experienced, or recall, any such reports from anyone, concerning the old DC-8 FDE either .... which incidently had not been edited since prior to 2006.
Out of curiosity .... Would you kindly "right click" upon each AIR.FILE you think is affected .... then select "PROPERTIES" .... and then quote me the "LAST MODIFIED DATE" for each ?
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by caiqueabrao on Mar 12, 2016 22:39:07 GMT
As you can see, I downloaded the files right now.  |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Mar 13, 2016 2:32:36 GMT
Just prior to a sudden personal calamity this morning (which incidentally "MAY" see me offline for the next few days .... I regret to add .... hence this late response) I took one of our DC-8-50's out for a test flight. T/O was at MGW .... loaded strictly in accordance with my recommended fuel loading without any payload adjustment/s .... exactly as per the new DC-8 Basic flying guide (see the last section of the new DC-8 manual/"DC-8 Panel Installation & Handling Notes"). The AP was engaged shortly after T/O (I fly alone and only have 2 hands  ) .... the simulation was then progressively cleaned-up (gear and flaps retracted) .... then manually trimmed through the AP CLIMB/DESCEND thumb wheel, for a 2,500 FPM ROC .... then similarly re-trimmed for a 3,000 FPM ROC .... again during AP controlled flight and within a roughly 180 KIAS - 275 KIAS airspeed range. The simulation responded to and flew/performed perfectly in accordance with my AP commanded control inputs. At 5;000 FT I then disengaged the AP. The simulation continued to maintain its pre-established ROC .... no problem at all there. Whilst under manual flight control I gently eased my joystick forward a little .... and the simulations nose dropped gently in response to this input as expected .... then I eased my joystick back a little .... and the simulations nose rose gently in response to this input and also as expected. By around 10,000 FT I purposely allowed the airspeed to increase to just over 300 KIAS .... and repeated these tests again .... with the same results also. I "DID NOT" experience any momentary control reversal such as you seem be experiencing. Nor have I ever experienced .... or even recall anyone else having reported .... such an issue previously and over the past 10 years .... and which is within the same apparent time frame of your own use of the HJG DC-8's .... both in their original version and these most recent updates. I cannot explain your experience .... other than it "seems" to be common to your own system, or rather, your controller device ... possibly. Maybe it's ( your controller device) triggering "a momentary reflex" in the opposite direction of control input .... OR .... you may possibly have a corrupted download .... I simply "DO NOT" know. Sometimes .... an issue experienced on one system "IS NOT" universally experienced. Once again .... I can only repeat my above analysis of this morning .... and repeat my previous response of today also .... in regard to (1) no edits having been applied to these simulations that might adversely impact control responses during either manual or AP flight control .... and (2) "NOTHING" adverse was ever experienced either during testing throughout the 3 years it took to improve each of these simulations. I'm not saying you don't have a particular issue to be reconciled, but, I suspect it's not one we/HJG can assist with. You mention your experience having also been the case prior to this re-release .... which I further suspect may only confirm any such issue "POSSIBLY" being localised at your end; I'm happy to entertain this query further .... but regrettably .... and only through forced private circumstances .... may be offline now for the next few days Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by Herman on Mar 13, 2016 5:49:35 GMT
I also took a DC-8-51 out for test flight and did not experience any problems such as mentioned.
Herman
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Mar 13, 2016 6:49:51 GMT
"THANK YOU" .... for taking the time to re-verify this Herman  Mark C AKL/Nz |
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Post by walterleo on Mar 13, 2016 12:27:59 GMT
Hi Caique!
Worn out contacts in your joystick? You may try another joystick or the keybord of your PC.
Good luck
Walter
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Post by Herman on Mar 13, 2016 16:13:13 GMT
Caique....looking at the pictures that you provided, it appears that you were using a DC-8-55F Cargo Jet.
I will do a test flight with that same aircraft and report back.
Herman
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Post by Herman on Mar 13, 2016 20:04:18 GMT
OK Caique, after a test flight, using the same aircraft as you did, a DC-8-50F, I can say say this.
With the aircraft stabalized at altitude and speed and under manual control and with the vertical speed indicator at zero I pushed the control column forward and there was a very slight momentary increase of 100-200ft\min on the VSI before decreasing. This increase was indeed momentary perhaps no more than 0ne second. No change as far as the actual altimeter reading ie. no corresponding increase in altitude on the altimeter.
The response was very similar when pulling back on the control column, only a very momentary change occurred. I do not really have any explanation for this slight deviation. It could be just how this particular instrument responds when there is a rapid input from the control colmn. It is not reflected on the actual altitude and altimeter of the aircraft.
Also, if you have done any real world flying, you would find that all pressure instruments,such as the altimeter,airspeed and VSI, do not respond immediately. There is always a bit of a "Lag" before it actually shows on the instrument.
Also, flying the big jets manually, is usually done only for short periods of time,so I would not be too concerned about this, what I consider to be an insignificant issue IMO.
Herman
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Mar 14, 2016 5:51:16 GMT
Are you talking about something like a "gauge/instrument only reflex" Herman (like a ripple .... for want of an expression) .... but .... with "no actual physical altitude gain/change" occurring in response to the indication ?
If so .... then .... such a gauge only reflex "IS" quite feasible .... and probably quite normal too in FS.
I interpreted him/CAIQUE to mean he experienced a degree of "UPWARDs" drift .... meaning .... some initiial altitude gain in response to his previously commanded decent before any such descent was initiated .... and it's "THIS" sort of behaviour precisely that I "have not" ever experienced with "any" of the DC-8's .... and even during my last test as of yesterday and in response to this query.
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by caiqueabrao on Mar 20, 2016 4:39:33 GMT
Hey guys, thank you for all feedback. I'm still trying to find a solution for my issue. But anyway, thank you all! |
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Post by Herman on Mar 20, 2016 15:44:30 GMT
Just to get a bit more information. What exactly are you experiencing.  An increase\decrease in reading on the Altimeter. Or an increase\decrease on the VSI only..... or both ....or are you experiencing what I have found ( a momentary change on the VSI only ) during my testing. Please be more specific. Herman |
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) .... the simulation was then progressively cleaned-up (gear and flaps retracted) .... then manually trimmed through the AP CLIMB/DESCEND thumb wheel, for a 2,500 FPM ROC .... then similarly re-trimmed for a 3,000 FPM ROC .... again during AP controlled flight and within a roughly 180 KIAS - 275 KIAS airspeed range. 
