Did Pan Am's inaugural 707 service stop for fuel?

[jimhalinda]

I have read varying accounts of whether or not Pan Am's first 707-120 service from New York to Paris stopped for fuel, and if so, where it stopped.

I have read that:

1. It flew direct from New York to Paris (and arrived with fumes in the tank)

2. It stopped in Gander for fuel.

3. It stopped in Shannon for fuel.

4. It stopped in either Gander or Shannon, but only on the return flight.

Does anyone know for sure? Did it vary with each flight depending on the situation?

Regards,

Jim

[Harerton Dourado - HJG]

According to René J. Francillon's book "Boeing 707 - Pioneer Jetliner", the first took off from NY Idlewild carrying 111 passengers plus crew and 62,500 lb of fuel. It stopped at Gander for refueling. It stayed there for 1h55, whth a cost of US$1,500.00 in 1958 dollars.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

I think you'll find aircraft flew New York/Paris direct with prevailing winds, but, the return Paris/New York service, against prevailing winds, nearly always stopped at either Shannon, or Gander, as Harerton indicates.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[jimhalinda]

I was wondering: as a general rule, did they stop for fuel before going over water?

For example, on a flight from London to New York, would they always stop at Shannon to fill up, or would they fill up in London and stop in Gander if conditions allowed it?

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Pretty much either one or other .... so I understand in the case of Paris/New York.

This's slightly "off-topic", but, if I recall my history correctly, there were at least 2 recorded occasions when due to favourable conditions BOAC Comet 4's actually managed flying transatlantic bipassing completly the normal Shannon or Gander tech stop. These aircraft were even more fuel restricted than early B707's.

Just thought I'd mention it because undoubtedly the same direct routing might have applied to B707 too .... when conditions were right.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[piedmont700]

Just the other day I took a -320 from Munich to Boston. I thought I was not going to be able to make it to Boston because of winds and such (I'm not quite an expert on predicting winds aloft vs. fuel consumption and all, but I'm working on it) so I planned a stop in Gander. I got to Gander and filled up, but I realized after I was on the ground that I probably could have made it.

However, this does remind me ofa question that has been nagging me. On the 707s, which takes up more fuel: 2 engines running at 20-40% or whatever power to maintain speed in a descent and 2 engines shut off, or 4 engines running at idle?

[Harerton Dourado - HJG]

More info from the book "Boeing 707 - Pioneer Jetliner" by René J. Francillon:

The first 707 return flight from Paris was done on Oct 27, 1958. It stopped in Keflavik, Iceland.

The first BOAC flight between NYC and London, with the Comet 4, on Oct 4, 1958 (22 earlier than PanAm flight) was non-stop, taking only 6 hours and 11 minutes, because of unusually favorable tail winds! As a comparison, the westbound flight took 10 hours 22 minutes, with one stop for refuelling.

Before starting scheduled passenger service to europe, PanAm operated the 707 in cargo flights between NYC and San Juan, Puerto Rico.

They also did some press flights across the North Atlantic. One of these flights benefited from favorable wind conditions and being able to use the longer runway 13R at Idlewild, flying non-stop to London.

Because of noise constraints, when departing from Idlewild 707 flights had to use the shorter runway 25 wich imposed reductions in maximum take-off weight. During the first two weeks of operation only one flight to Paris (Nov 4) was non-stop, with a 7 hour and 1 minute flight time.