Engine 2 shuts down on ALT-Enter when aux tanks are empty

[dand]

Hello and Happy New Year to all.

I am just starting to use the terrific L-1011s, and of course there's a lot to learn.  This specific question is about fuel management, I think.

I'm running FS9 on Windows 10.  (I also have FSX but have not tried the L-1011s on FSX.)

Everything seems to work fine when the fuel tanks are not empty.  But, here's what happens when the smaller tanks run down to zero.  If I switch the cross-feed, engine 2 will continue to run.  BUT, after that point, if I use ALT-Enter, which I frequently do to check charts, flight plans, etc., all while FS keeps running, then Engine 2 will spool down.  It begins to spool down when I first use ALT-Enter, and not when I use ALT-Enter to return to full screen.  This happens only when the smaller tanks are dry, not when all tanks have fuel.

I can restart engine 2, usually using CNTRL-E (the starting sequence isn't clear to me yet to do it manually, though I can on a cold start at the gate).  All 3 engines will continue to run, so I know engine 2 is getting fuel.  But if I use ALT-Enter again, the problem returns.

I've tried both basic models - the 1011-1/10 and the 250, but using the analog panels (and correct panels for each model).  I don't know if the tape gauge panels make a difference, but I could try that, if you want.

Help?  I'm obviously doing something wrong.  A simple work-around is not to exit full screen, and either print out my destination airport information in advance, or go to map to retrieve it.  I just like to avoid pausing FS, which happens when you select the Map.  And I'd like to avoid wasting paper...

So, I can live with this, but this is the only Aircraft I've ever used that presents this problem.

Thanks for any advice, and thanks for such a terrific line-up of A/C, textures, panels, etc.

Dan

[Nathan Ford - HJG]

Hey Dan, great to hear you’re starting to fly this fabulous bird.
Not at my PC at the moment, but I will have a look as soon as I can. I know FS9 doesn’t like Win10 very much, you have probably seen the black mouse pointer etc, so I always fly it in Windowed mode not Full screen. The advantage then is you just reduce the size of the window to access your desktop, charts etc without having to ALT-Enter. As soon as I can, I will see if I can replicate your problem.

Cheers and I will get back asap,
Nathan

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Bear in mind these panels were engineered before WINDOWS 10 was ever a reality, but, they should run OK .... if FS9 can be gotten to run within the WIN 10 environment.

These panels are both FS9 and FSX portable .... "confirmed"

I'm not aware of any specific problems since nothing like this has ever been reported previously .... as a search of as this forum Support page will/should confirm.

"ALT+ENTER" keyboard commands shouldn't have any impact upon these L-1011 panels and their systems .... those commands are most commonly used to switch to, and from, FULL SCREEN viewing mode .... again with no impact on the panel/s or their systems.

I don't know if the tape gauge panels make a difference

The Fuel System logic is precisely the same for each of the L-1011 panels .... no variation or difference/s at all.

The Fuel System in these panels is "basic" .... we did not compile it despite our editing the main panel with quite a number of more advanced features than were represented within the original versions of these same panels.

Feeding the engines from specific tanks only at any stage of virtual flight has never been part of our recommended procedure using any of these panels.

Again as we didn't design the fuel system the integrity of running specific tank-to-engine configurations beyond "what we're prepared to recommend" can't be guaranteed.

The best way to configure the Fuel System in these panels is as follows ....

- Check that each of the following Fuel System switches are selected "ON" and their associated lamps appear illuminated ....

- TANK 2A PUMPS .... 2 lamps = "ON"
- TANK 1 PUMPS .... 2 lamps = "ON"
- CROSSFEEDS .... 3 lamps = "ON"
- TANK 3 PUMPS .... 2 lamps = "ON"
- TANK 2B PUMPS .... 2 lamps = "ON"
- ENG 1 FUEL VALVE .... 1 lamp = "ON"
- ENG 2 FUEL VALVE .... 1 lamp = "ON"
- ENG 3 FUEL VALVE .... 1 lamp = "ON"

.... and then "leave everything as per this recommendation" .... as stated within our following-linked L-1011 manual ....

tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thread/3888/l1011-tristar-panel-installation-handling

See sections 3.00: PANEL/SYSTEMS CONFIGURATION - DEFAULT ENGINES STARTED SCENARIO and 3.01: PANEL/SYSTEMS CONFIGURATION - MANUAL ENGINE STARTUP PROCEDURES. within the above-linked manual.

Configure the panel "precisely as recommended" .... and one should't experience any issues at all.

PLEASE NOTE" Some of the panel imagery in this manual is currently not displaying .... "complements of PHOTOBUCKET"

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[Nathan Ford - HJG]

Hi Dan,

I can confirm that using Win10 and FS9 in full screen mode and using ALT-Enter is causing engine 2 to be starved of fuel when tanks 2 are empty on my system.
Unfortunately win 10 has created quite a few problems when using the full screen mode on FS9 as the sim was designed for WinXP. You probably have noticed the black mouse pointer and menu problems. What I can say is that the sim works perfectly, as described by Mark, in windowed mode.
Using windowed mode will allow you to resize the sim while flying so you can access your charts etc.

Cheers,
Nathan

[dand]

Thanks everyone. I have been thinking about not using Full Screen, at least on this AC (it's a work-around, but less pretty). I'm going to try FSX. My only gripe with FSX is that in View cockpit mode (not Virtual cockpit), you can't use Shift-Enter to look down, which makes landing "interesting." But it's certainly a work-around for the FS9/Win 10 issue.

I hate to ask what folks think about FS9 in Win 11. I have Win 11 on my laptop (free upgrade), but have specifically delayed updating my desktop machine, precisely for this reason.

I guess it's getting time for MSFS - but then HJG AC won't work, right?

Thanks again, everyone!
Dan

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Thanks for confirming that WIN 10 imposition Nathan .... none of us could have been aware of that previously.

These L-1011 panels were worked up by us during 2010 .... and last edited by us (with gyro-stabilized colour WX Radar) during 2018 .... but their origin dates back to 2005/6 and when WIN XP was in its prime and well in advance of WIN 7 too.

Dan .... given you're a WIN 10 user of FS9, and given what you've discovered also (that we didn't previously know), the best/all we can advise is .... "avoid using FULL SCREEN mode with these panels "in FS9 and on a WINDOWS 10 OS (only). This does not apply though to FS or FSX within earlier WINDOWS versions. Best I can do is add this particular note to the "KNOWN ISSUES" section of our forum based L-1011 manual .... and which I've just done today.

I very much doubt there'll ever be a fix developed for this though.

Can't provide an opinion in regard to WIN 11 either .... that's all "tierra incognita"

I guess it's getting time for MSFS - but then HJG AC won't work, right?

"CORRECT".

Although we may add the odd other items to our inventory.... and further work on "what we can" (key words) .... our primary task is simply to try'n keep what we offer available "for as long as interest can be sustained".

The difficulties we confront are ....

(1) Some of what we even own can't be further/easily modified because that requires "a courtesy consent" .... however in some cases those whom "ACTUALLY OWN" some of these products are mow either no longer with us (in this world) or no longer contactable (the bases for some of what we offer actually date back almost 20 years of FS technology and regardless however we've enhanced it since).

(2) A lot of the remainder of what we offer we host "BY CONSENT" (whilst we were originally authorized to edit it .... it's not ours to be able to constantly do as we please with) and once again some of the original authors/designers of these products are no longer with us or otherwise can't be contacted for additional consent/s either.

That's just the way it "IS" .... I'm afraid

My only gripe with FSX is that in View cockpit mode (not Virtual cockpit), you can't use Shift-Enter to look down, which makes landing "interesting." But it's certainly a work-around for the FS9/Win 10 issue.

No VC in these L-1011 panels .... just 2D main panel views only

The potential for view limitations is known (and discussed within the "KNOWN ISSUES" section of our L-1011 manual) and is relevant to both FSX and FS9.

The commands to incrementally raise/lower the scenery horizon line/view are different in FSX .... but .... are available and do work. I don't use FSX so can't state what these commands are .... but .... Nathan might like to comment in regard to this.

L-1011's usually approach to land with a fairly high AI pitch attitude/deck angle and what we offer, being 2D panels, this can impact RWY visibility in FS. The secrets (plural) to limiting this imposition are ....

(1) Do not land heavy (the heavier one is for landing the higher the AI pitch inclination will be) .... with a full payload the total remaining fuel for the approach to landing should not exceed 20% per tank.

(2) Do not get too slow during the approach to landing either (the slower one gets the higher the AI pitch inclination will be also .... and if excess fuel weight is a combined factor also then the pitch attitude is going to be further adversely influenced/increased) .... with a full payload, and no more than 20% total fuel remaining, and with both full flaps and landing gear extended also, the best approach to landing airspeed is between "154-149 KTS" .... and which, subject to power reduction during the flare and immediately prior to landing, can be further reduced for a touchdown speed of "139-138 KTS" once passing over the RWY threshold.

All of this helps to avoid the AI pitch attitude getting too high and causing restricted RWY visibility.

If weight and airspeed are right throughout the the approach to landing then RWY visibility should never become an issue.

I concede the recommended approach to landing airspeed originally quoted within our forum based manual tended toward being "too slow" .... to the extent of "causing the AI pitch attitude to adversely increase" .... so .... I have (today) edited/corrected these references and in accordance with my above recommendations.

Mark C
AKL/NZ