Flying a CV-880 from New York to New Orleans - how long?

[blueaircraft]

I am flying Delta's new Convair jets from New York to New Orleans, using a period Delta timetable, and I am a bit confused with the timetable.

There are two flights from NY to NO on Delta's October 1960 timetable that involves the 880, that I observed.

One departs 10am EDT time from New York and arrives at New Orleans 10:36am CST time.

The other is planned to leave 9:50am EDT time (just ten minutes less than the first flight) from New York and arrives at New Orleans 11:26 CST time. A bit longer. This flight is planned from the 30th October.

Now I expected the flight time of the first flight, but ended up closer to the second flight's arrival time. I did not do too much math in calculating average speed, etc. before the flight. I was testing scenery files rather than a true sim flight. My average cruising speed was 515 knots TAS, headwinds or not. That's the respected time officially promoted by HJG Did Delta fly the 880s "much" faster than the 515 knots TAS that the Convair usually flies at, or did I fly the CV wrong?

Also of note:

the July 1960 timetable shows that a 10am flight from New York arrives at New Orleans at 10:25am. Respective time zones (EDT and CST). Same story as before, perhaps?



Regards,
Andrew.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Is there any time difference between New Orleans and New York ?

If there is the I guess that needs to be factored into time tables.

Both DAL and TWA flew their CV880's like a bat out of hell .... since that was how these aircraft were intended to be flown .... until ATC speed restrictions within terminal zones ruined all the fun.

"Depending upon your altitude" you should be cruising at around MACH 0.87/MACH 0.87.9 (at the max) .... at FL310 at .... and which equates to around 515 TAS or around 340 IAS by my reckoning.

Again that's how these aircraft were flown originally.

During pre-release flight testing this's the performance I recorded for the CV880-22 ....

FL310 CRUISE PERFORMANCE

IAS = 340 KTS
MACH = 0.87.9
TAS = 515 KTS
GS = 512 (340 X 1.64 = 512
EPR = 2.78
RPM = 91.5%
EGT = 501
F/F = 3,086 LBS (X4 = 12,344 LBS)

The CV880-22M was "a wee bit faster still"

These quoted performances are pretty accurate"

Flying a CV-880 from New York to New Orleans - how long?

I've seen flight times of 2 hrs 40 mins to 3 hrs 10 mins quoted "today", but, don't know the CV880 flight time over this route back in the 1960's.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[blueaircraft]

Yes there is a one hour time difference between the two cities - New Orleans is one hour behind New York's time. I did fly the Convair at the suggested altitude - 31000FT @ 515 knots TAS. The climb rate was superb I'm thinking of flying it at the max cruising speed - 534 knots... what altitude and what conditions are necessary for this?

Regards
Andrew

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Depends if you're talking about IAS or TAS.

I think TAS increases with altitude gain but one needs to multiply the IAS per a conversion factor.

I think those conversion factors are as follows


At FL310 multiply the IAS by 1.64

At FL330 multiply the IAS by 1.79 .... you'll need to be light to go this high

At FL400 multiply the IAS by 2.02 .... if you're light enough to go that high


I routinely operate at around FL310 .... simply because it's a a good initial cruising altitude following any TO at MTOW .... and because I can't be arsed doing long flight in FS anymore.

Just try what I've recommended .... and see how it all goes .... and remember to factor in the time difference between the point of origin and destination in order to correctly calculate you air/en-route time between both points.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[blueaircraft]

Thanks, I'll have to try my luck there. Strangely enough, the Wikipedia article for the CV-880 states that the "max cruise" is achieved (or can be achieved) at 22,500 ft with MTOW. I find that strange considering that jets tend to "work better" the higher they go, but perhaps under certain conditions it can happen 

Regards
Andrew

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

at 22,500 ft

It probably would be .... "in terms of measured IAS" .... BUT .... it's going to burn a hell of a lot of virtual fuel

Just depends if speed or simulated economy of operation is your priority .... most people probably like to go "BALLS-TO-THE-WALL"/'as fast as one can go and for "the shear heel of it". Think the Devil must make'em do it

Just play with it .... and see

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

jets tend to "work better" the higher they go

I think you'll find what that really means is .... the higher jets go/cruise, then, the more economic they become, because they burn less fuel during "prolonged cruise" at higher altitude, through the atmosphere becoming progressively less dense with altitude gain.

FL310 is still a good initial cruising altitude following any departure at/near MGW.

To go higher .... to the like of (say) FL350 .... or even FL390 .... one needs to be lighter, or, initially restrict one's cruising altitude until one becomes lighter through fuel burn-off. Really (probably) only applicable to long(er) haul flights though .... otherwise (even if relatively light) one might no sooner get up to higher altitude when one then needs to start coming back down again and with very little "sustained cruise time" between either TOC or TOD phases of flight.

I understand such was an imposition on NZ's longest air domestic routes .... and as such significantly increasing cruising airspeed, after high(er) altitude level off, might result in just 1 or 2 minutes (only) being lopped off the air time between both departure and destination airports. Just not worth the greater expense of climbing to higher altitudes, coupled with increased fuel burn for greater speed at altitude also .... and despite the fact fuel burn is always reduced with altitude gain anyway (still got to burn a lot of fuel to get up there in the first instance).

In all phases of flight "economy" is the name of the game .... and it's often quite challenging (of an enjoyable nature) to actually try'n simulate such operational practices in FS .... and regardless what simulation one's flying

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[blueaircraft]

Thanks Mark. I'll try again when I get time

Regards
Andrew