disagree sign

[kellyb]

As I prepare the MD 83 for take off, I set one click of flaps and a sign lights up saying "DISAGREE".

Surely there should be some flaps on takeoff (up to three clicks), and just who is it that is disagreeing with me?

Thanks.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

What panel are we talking about here "KELLYB" ?

Are you using any of the 4 panels which we offer here for these MDX simulations .... or .... other offerings including MSFS default panel options.

Really need more information here.

Having said that thiough (above) I can tell you as follows ....

I'm not actually aware that any of the 4 panel options we offer even features a "DISAGREE" lamp in relation to FLAP settings.

Each of the 3 analogue type/based MDX panels we offer here feature a standard FS type FLAP gauge .... whereas the EFIS type B717-200 panel version features an altogether different type of flap indicator on one of its screens.

I've seen a "STAB TRIM" lamp illuminate where it, perhaps, shouldn't (if more than what the panel thinks to be a necessary setting is applied and which may, actually, be less than might be required in reality) on the 3 analogue based panels. There's nothing we can do about that though because, as mentioned within the SUPPORT notes, none of these 4 MDX panel options have ever been re-engineered to HJG standards/preferences.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[Alejandro]

Do you had the random damage activated? If it were a real plane, it sounded to me like one of the flaps was stuck and doesn't deployed. But I didn't know that FS had this specifical damage.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

OK .... I've just, now only, seen that "DISAGREE" lamp to which you refer.

Well spotted "KELLYB" !!!! ;D .... and thanks for your attempted input too Alejandro , but, it seems that "KELLYB's" observation/report is, actually, quite correct !!!!

It's a very small lamp indeed .... so small uin fact that it's a detail I'd missed during my own extensive testing and writing of SUPPORT notes for each of these 3 particular panel versions.

This lamp is located below the FLAP gauge on each of the GOLDING (white) and GOLDING/SEALE (red) panel versions .... and beside the FLAP indicator on the SPADA panel version.

During testing and analysis I likely dismissed this illumination as being some other form of secondary annunciation confirming that the flaps had indeed been selected .... "and had extended accordingly"

Given that these panels represent engineering by 2 "different authors" and each displays the very same indication with our MDX simulations .... I therefore suspect/assume the "DISAGREE" lamp (along with the STAB TRIM indication I mentioned above too) is, possibly, occurring through some degree of "very minor incompatibility" between the current gauge sets for each of these 3 panel versions and our own FDE .... there "IS", often, a relationship between the two in many FS panels.

Until we find and apply .... "IF WE CAN" .... the means by which to cancel this indication then it will have to be tolerated/ignored.

So long as FLAPS "ARE" set for T/O .... and these settings ARE" then anunciated by indications appearing within the FLAP GAUGE itself .... then that, for the moment, is all that matters !!!!

Disregard what, for the time being, will need to be regarded a "false indication" in respect of the "DISAGREE" lamp !!!!

It, perhaps, must also be remembered that none of these panel were actually designed for specific use with HJG MDX simulations .... as stated within my SUPPORT notes. They were selected (by me) because each represented the best "pilots eye views" available for MDX TYPE aircraft simulations .... as well as being the easiest to obtain authorization for us to host here also .... AND .... other than a couple of "very minor discrepancies", like this, they do, each, otherwise seem perform marvelously well with the HJG MDX simulations.

Short of an easy/easily applied solution being identified and applied to correct this discrepancy .... it could be a while before we're able to re-engineer anything associated with any of these panels .... "IF EVER" we're able to do that "AT ALL"

I will .... the meantime .... add a note (about this false "DISAGREE" lamp indication) to the "KNOWN ISSUES" section of my SUPPORT notes for each of the panel versions to which it applies.

"THANKS" for the HU

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[kellyb]

I'm using the MD80 Panel Golding Red panel, and as shown in the attached image, there is one click of flaps, and the DISAGREE light is directly below the flaps gauge. It comes on as soon as I call for one click of flaps.

According to FSPanel, it's called "pg.md880.cd.slat"

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

YEP .... I've identified that .... and posted accordingly (above) too

It looks like we've posted and/or edited over the top of each other ;D

Please refer to my 2nd explanation above .... which, I believe, sums everything up quite adequately

I've also, now, updated my SUPPORT notes .... for the GOLDING (white), GOLDING/SEALE (red), and SPADA panel versions "only" (this HU doesn't apply to the SOUTHEY MDX/B717-200 panel version) in regard to this "very minor discrepancy".

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[kellyb]

Thanks, Mark. I'll just let it disagree with me, then, however insubordinate it might seem.

On the other hand, isn't it nice that it simply disagrees with us, and doesn't yell? How very polite!

[garryrussell]

Is one click of flaps enough?

Not sure how the DC 9 is set up but the jets I have flown, not many, one click brings the leading edge slats down and the second is the first setting of wing flap

Maybe not here, but just a thought.

Your flaps on the pic seem to be showing up

[christrott]

Should be using Flaps 11 for takeoff or whatever position is closest to 11*.

Also, the Disagree light on the real plane is to show that the handle and indicators don't agree. As such, when you select any flap/slat position (whether up or down from the current position) the light should come on as the flaps/slats transit and then extinguish once the position of the flaps/slats agree with the position of the flap/slat handle.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Thanks for you input too Garry .... but .... I'm "pretty sure" it's a basic gauge/FDE incompatibility .... such as I've already suggested above (a tiny detail which I misinterpreted during my normally "VERY THOROUGH" pre-release evaluation process) and by virtue of the fact the 3 panel versions, in question, were originally intended for use with models much earlier than HJG's ... or even SGA's/Erick CANTU's for that matter.

"MINOR" though this is .... I'm, again, sure it's being caused something not yet represented in our FDE, but, which is necessary in order to cancel the lamp (resulting in another/the correct indication/illumination), or, the issue could, simply, be restricted to the FLAP Annunciator Lamp only. The actual FLAP gauge itself is fine and so are the fLAP animations on each of our models too.

I've tried (yesterday) using various Elevator Trim settings in relation to Flap settings .... in order to see if this lamp could possibly be cancelled, or forced to indicate otherwise, but, apparently not.

The solution may be "quite simple" .... but .... has yet to be identified and the fix then applied .... only I can't, really, see this happening quickly, for a multitude of reasons, so, we'll just have to "live with it" for the time being.

In any case .... and unlike is the case with the realworld aircraft .... in FS it's not possible to set SLAT/FLAP conditions which are in disagreement with each other (unless too much/max flap is inadvertently set), so, this particular lamp/indication is, really, of no consequence despite the it's being represented within each of the 3 panels in question.

So long as both SLATS and FLAPS have been set .... and are actually seen to extend to their selected settings (which they currently do) .... then that's all that matters in "this particular case".

Is one click of flaps enough?

1 click typically extends the LE SLATS only.

The 2nd click typically sets the FLAPS to an approximately 5* or 10* (degree) detente.

And the 3rd click typically sets the FLAPS to an approximately 15* (degree) detente.

"IF" operating at, or near, MGTOW then I recommend FLAPS 15 (approx) .... and if light then FLAPS 5/10 should be more than sufficient .... aided in both cases by a wee bit of Elevator Trim setting too.

To assist those interested/needing assistance .... I posted my own "Basic Flying Guide" (tutorial .... last December) for our MDX aircraft .... and which appears as "SECTION 3" (the 3rd posting) within my MD80/90 PANEL INSTALLATION & HANDLING NOTES posting of this SUPPORT page.

isn't it nice that it simply disagrees with us, and doesn't yell? How very polite

"OH YES" .... but .... one will really know themselves if they take liberties or fail to set the FLAPS using each of our DC8 panels because they'll really "scream at you", but there again, so will the actual aircraft too ;D

Personally .... and "IF" I ever get the chance to in the future .... I'd like to see both better and more alarms/warning systems included within each of the 4 MDX panels we currently offer

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[kevinr]

FYI - Mark
In order to make the flaps indicator to make better sense to me I changed the flap settings to;

FLAPS-POSITION.0 = 0
FLAPS-POSITION.1 = 5
FLAPS-POSITION.2 = 10
FLAPS-POSITION.3 = 20
FLAPS-POSITION.4 = 30
FLAPS-POSITION.5 = 40
FLAPS-POSITION.6 = 50

And now the 'DISAGREE' light goes out and 'Takeoff' lights at the '10' and '20' position.

This was on the DC-10-10 (FS9)

If I remember correctly the SGA's had similar settings...


Kevin

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

This was on the DC-10-10 (FS9)

I presume you mean "DC9-10" rather than DC10-10

I'll have a look at this later .... in the future .... when I get time to do so.

I do, perhaps, need to remind everyone that none of the MDX panels currently hosted by HJG have ever received the "customery pre-release revamp" (they weren't actually designed for the HJG models, but, do othwerwize work fine with each of them .... as I've mentioned in the SUPPORT notes
) that most other HJG panels have normally been subjected to.

I think that "DISAGREE" anunciation applies to just the 2 GOLDING and the 1 only SPADA panels versions only .... since each of these uses the very same FLAP ANUNCIATOR gauge/lamp as I recall.

In the meantime .... all folk need to do is just ensure they have at least 2-3 notches of FLAP extended for T/O .... and regardless of the current "DISAGREE" anunciation.

Once again .... I "will" have a look at this though .... later .... when I've more time available to test it for myself.

"THANKS"

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[kellyb]

flaps.0 values were initially all set to 1.

I just quickly went into the cfg and change the values for flaps.0 to correspond to those for flaps.1, and there is no change in the behavior of the DISAGREE sign.

Just more research. More when I have more minutes to muck about.

[kevinr]

OOPS - Yes, I did mean the DC9-10.