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Post by mikethepilot on Nov 7, 2015 18:19:56 GMT
Hi, I noticed a strange behavior in the new HJG Boeing 727-200adv series. I don't know if this is a know issue but, the outboard ailerons seems to be out of sync in relation to the movement when the airplane is in the air. As you can see in the image below you'll notice that then making a turn both outboard ailerons are moving in the same direction when these should be opposite. The issue is not present when aircraft is on the ground... Any guidance? goo.gl/photos/zpJMPELaQqezUDuKACurrently running Windows 10 build 240 (release) with all updates and FS2004 v9.1. |
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Post by Herman on Nov 7, 2015 21:11:29 GMT
Just did a test flight on the same aircraft you did (EAL 727-225 ADV new HJG Model) and as you can see in my Screen Shots all looked normal and not displaying any aileron deflections. On the downwind no flaps selected yet.  On Final with flap 30.  On short final flaps 40. Herman |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 8, 2015 2:21:59 GMT
I´ve had a quick look at this myself also. As Mike sais .... aileron response on the ground is "perfectly normal" .... there are "NO ISSUES AT ALL" there at all and everything "IS" working correctly ....   Inflight however it seems that both outboard ailerons want to point in the same direction .... manual control input for a right bank points both ailerons "UP" .... and manual control input for a left bank points both ailerons "DOWN" .... as per my following image.  This anomally is evident within the "flap detente range" only .... its doesn´t occur outide the flap detente range though and within which regime the inboard ailerons do "correctly" animate in conjunction with "minimal deployment" of a number of Spoiler panels too (the latter being extremly difficult to detect, but, which "DOES" work correctly also. Why the difference inflight only ? I wouldn´t have clue .... other than to suggest that both outboard aileron animations have obviously become cross-linked within the flight regime ! BUT .... I can state definitively as follows .... This "minor discrepency" is evident during "manual flight control" only .... and "DOES NOT" occur, at all, during AP controlled flight. It requires "significant manual control input" (like a hard/extreme left or right bank) in order to fully deflect (up/down) either the port or starboard outboard ailerons .... and such extreme inputs simply wouldn´t be applied during any normal approach to landing. During AP controlled flight .... or an AP controlled ILS/GS coupled auto-approach to landing in particular .... this "minor issue simply "IS NOT" apparent at all (and accounts for its having been overlooked) .... SO .... to this extent my own experiences concurr with Herman´s report. I certainly can´t deflect both port and starboard outboard ailerons to (what appears to be) their fully up, or down, positions during level flight .... as appears to be the case per Mikes image .... my own experience/s once again concurring with Herman´s report. We´ll have a look at this "minor issue" .... when we can. "IF" it can be corrected per simple FDE editing (I don´t think this´s the case though) then we´ll post a solution relatively quickly .... but failing this .... it´ll be a while before we can get around to adddressing it .... I´m afraid   We´re already well into putting the finishing touches to another project .... with another 2, or 3, projects (at least) slotted behind it too .... SO .... everything must assume it´s own priority/will have to take its turn  Mark C BOG/CO |
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Post by Herman on Nov 8, 2015 16:43:14 GMT
Never did observe what happened to the ailerons when making fast manual banks with the 727-200 ADV. Mike's screen shot showed the aircraft on final approach, with flaps lowered, so that is the condition what I was simulating. I can't imagine why Mike's airplane would behave in such a manner. It is interesting to note, and I have supplied a SS of the 727, after selecting the aircraft from the FS Menu, the ailerons are indeed reflected up. Don't have any idea why that would be.  ?  Herman |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 8, 2015 19:12:16 GMT
Actually .... it´s not uncommon to see aileron, and even rudder, deflection on 3D models when these are presented within the FS Aircraft Selection Menu preview window (in so far as I´ve seen in regard to these, and other, add-on aircraft type at least) .... although Herman´s right in this particular case that both ailerons are, indeed, showing fully "UP" rather than opposing deflections and which shouldn´t ever be the case Mark C BOG/CO |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 9, 2015 0:41:02 GMT
OK folks .... I believe we´ve got this sussed-out .... in that we now know the cause this minor issue. It´s something that can´t be corrected by simple FDE editing though .... as I suspected would be the case .... SO .... as I said above .... .... and for the other above-stated reasons. REMEMBER .... we´re only a small group with limited resources and a lot on our plate .... and our focus has moved somewhat since this recent re-rlease In the meantime .... The flight performnance of each of these new B727-200 simulations is "SUPERB" (if they´re flown properly to start with I mean) and is "ENTIRELY UNAFFECTED" by this "minor discrepency" .... and which is only briefly detectable (if at all under more than by far the majority of situations) within the regime of circumstances I´ve described above .... so .... don´t worry .... be happy Mark C BOG/CO |
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Post by mikethepilot on Nov 9, 2015 1:06:30 GMT
Great insights, thanks for the technical overview. These models are superb simulations nonetheless and look forward to future HJG releases for this model and other aircraft as well.
Thanks for all the help!
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Nov 9, 2015 1:24:12 GMT
No problem Mike .... and thanks for the HU Mark C BOG/CO |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Feb 25, 2016 3:08:16 GMT
Just to demonstrate that we "DO" take (consider) all reports and feedback .... "SERIOUSLY" .... The ailerons on the first batch of B727 re-releases all worked fine/correctly "on the ground" .... as was noted during pre-release testing .... so .... there was no reason to assume these wouldn't work equally correctly inflight too, but, as things turned out, that assumption turned out not to be the fact .... because as Mike reported, within this thread, the aileron animations became inverted in flight. It's taken us a while to figure out the cause of this inverted aileron behaviour, but, figure it out, we have .... we "believe" .... as the 2 above images below should reveal .... and thanks entirely to the dogged perseverance and dedication of Paul HAAK ....   The appropriate aileron fix "HAS" been developed .... tested .... proven to work .... and "IS" currently being applied. The result being .... all aileron animations in both (virtual) earthly and heavenly configurations "ARE" .... now .... working "CORRECTLY". It'll be a while before these are all re-released though (other releases are planned ahead of these and everything must take its pre-assigned turn) .... but .... patience will/should be rewarding .... and folk "CAN" .... at least .... see that something "IS", in fact in the pipeline. And .... "YES" .... the B727-100 3D model subject depicted in the above imagery "IS" wingleted .... but .... "NO" .... it's not a TAY 651 re-engine (its actually representative of a few rare P&W powered RE SUPER 27 conversions of -100 series aircraft). Instead it's essentially just "A SIMPLE TEXTURE/MODEL TEST/EXPERIMENT" .... to prove validity of the revised aileron coding. A "VERY BIG THANKS" to Paul HAAK Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by Herman on Feb 25, 2016 17:51:48 GMT
If I recall, from my own flight testing, this aileron issue was linked to the transition point of outboard to inboard ailerons, and the speed\flap settings.
Herman
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Feb 25, 2016 20:42:04 GMT
It was a basic, but complex, XML coding error which caused the issue to occur .... as I described above .... resulting in the ailerons working perfectly in one regime but not in the other.
We know what caused it now .... and how to address/fix it .... and are currently doing so with a re-releas planned ASAP .... but .... in between other plans too.
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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