707 fuel pump problem

[jimhalinda]

I will start with a question... do you need to start with the 707 cold and dark, and then go through the startup procedure, to have the fuel pumps work properly in the HJG 707?

I have it properly installed with the correct panel and config files.

I start FSX with the default 747, engines running.

I change aircraft to the HJG 707-320C. One anomaly I notice is the autopilot ALT HOLD switch is ON. I always turn it off.

I can then fly it fine, the autopilot works fine.

However, as soon as I turn on a fuel pump (whether on the ground or at 18000 feet), I get an engine shutdown.

I will try the full startup sequence tomorrow, just thought I'd ask first. I couldn't find any reference to this in past posts.

Regards, Jim

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

It's possible that something in the transfer from default B747 to the HJG B707 .... in FSX could (possibly) .... be the cause of the AP automatically defaulting to "ON" .... but "NO" .... that shouldn't happen at all .... either as the result of a cold & dark engine startup or engines started scenario.

Try starting with the default CESSNA (check its AP os "OFF" though) .... and see if the same anomally repeats .... and report back.

Important not to touch any switches or activate any systems, at all, in either default panel option prior to the change-over, or these selections will be automatically transferred to the next aircraft selection of choice (you B707 inthis case) .... as is always the case in FS.

Fuel BOOST PUMO-wise ....

All 4 pairs of 2 switches, relating to each of the 4 engines (not the CENTER TANK though) .... 8 switches in total .... need to be selected "ON" (that's "UP) for engine startup .... and these switches, including the CENTER TANK pair too, also need being selected "ON", and then left "ON", whenever climbing above 10,000 FT .... or a flame-out will occur.

Personally .... I just select all 10 BOOST PUMP switches "ON" .... and leave them "ON" .... and have never suffered any problem following either a cold & dark engine startup or engines started scenario.

By any chance .... you're not inadvertenty selecting either of the 4 FUEL CUT OFF switches (on the very top of the Fuel Schematic portion of the F/E sub panel) are you ?

Doing so will result in a failed engine .... both on the ground and in the air.

FUEL VALVE-wise (along the bottome of he Fuel Schematic portion of the F/E sub panel) .... I simply select all 6 valves "OPEN" .... as I strat the engines .... then leave them "OPEN" following any cold & dark cold & dark engine startup or an engines started scenario .... simply to avioid the possibility of fuel imbalance as its burned off.

Not aware off any of the issues your experiencing Jim .... so far as I can recall .... in either FS2004 or FSX.

Try my engine startup & panel cofiguration tutorial .... in case you're posiibly missing/overlooking a step in regard to these latter fuel/engine related points.

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[Herman]

Hello Jim;

Nice to see you back and flying. I have just been reading about your Auto Pilot and fuel pump incidents and mention to you my experiences as I am an FSX user.

My usual start procedure of the HJG 707's is a bit different, as I don't use the cold start procedure as recommended. I usually just shut the engines down using the fuel cut off levers on the throttle quadrend and then restart the engines one by one 3,4,2&1 with all 8 fuel pump selectors ON and the center tank pumps OFF.

Of course if you prefer to use the recommended HJG Start Procedure please do so. This is really just my own alternative method.

Once I get to my cruise altitude I switch to supply all 4 engines from the center tank only, by opening the center tank supply valves and then I switch the individual engine fuel pumps OFF Now all 4 engines are feed from the center tank\tanks. According to what I have read that is what is done in real world aircraft fuel handling. It has something to do with Wing loadings I believe.

Now here is where I have noticed some strange behaviour. AS long as I don't Pause the flight everything goes along just fine. When the centre tank\tanks level reaches a low point I switch ON the engine fuel pumps again and shut off the center tank fuel pumps. Now all 4 engines are again supplied from their fuel tanks.

However, if I do Pause the flight and go back to it, or bring up the Flight Engineers Panel, all tank fuel pumps will be\go to the On positions again, and if you try to set them up again to the cruise set up, as soon as you go to OFF position on the individual engine fuel pumps, that engine will shut down even though the center tank fuel pumps are ON and the supply valves are open.

I realize that perhaps I am making my Fuel handling a bit different and more complicated. I do recall reading about some of these anormalities in the 707 Fuel Handling Instructions Forum written by George Carty, so you may want to take a look at those.

Herman

[jimhalinda]

Thanks Mark and Herman, it's good to be back after about three years of no simming!

Starting with the default Cessna, instead of the 747, seems to solve the fuel pump problem. I was able to climb to 31000 feet, turned on the fuel pumps, and all was well. (This was with engines running, I didn't do any shutdown/startup procedures). Herman, I will watch for the behaviours you described when pausing/unpausing.

The Autopilot ALT HLD was still on when I switched to the 707, but that was easily turned off and I had no problems using the autopilot.

I am using FSX this time (I lost my copy of FS9). FSX sure seems buggy! I have SP1 and SP2 installed, but it still seems to act up a lot more than FS9 did.

Thankfully I still have my classic AI traffic from Tom Gibson, plus my own late 60s and early 70s versions. Much more immersive than the default fictional airlines!

Regards,

Jim

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Dunno what may be causing that AP "ALT HLD" switch to stick/default "ON" .... in your particular case.

I presume it's "OFF" ..... at CESSNA level .... when that particular default simulation is first loaded into FS .... do just check this !!!!

If it is "ON" at CESSNA level .... then that would be sufficient to cause it to remain "ON" when transferring to the B707 (and possibly any other FS aircraft too). It could simply be the result of some kinmd of internally generated, or even configured, routine or function within FSX, but, I'm not sufficiently experienced with FSX in order to be able to state definitively

Again .... this shouldn't happen though .... and I don't (for the moment) recall any previous notices of it's defaulting to "ON" .... in either FS2004 or FSX.

FUEL HANDLING-wise .... in respect of Fuel Cut Off, Fuel Boost Pumps, and Fuel Valves etc ....

Not saying there's not anything wrong.

Just saying I can't find anything wrong (or replicate the issue) .... on my end .... in FS2004 of course !!!!

Again, I just flick everything "ON" (CENTER TANK inclusive) .... progressively during engine startup procedures (cold & dark scenario), or after loading the default engines started scenario .... and then just leave everything "ON".

Having to pause through any interruptions .... like business/panic phone line, a trip to the loo to take a piss or dump, or having to make my own coffee (or serve myself another beverage of choice) because the in-house FA is indisposed or otherwise gone on strike or at variance with the captain .... I can honestly say I've "never" experienced any engine shutdowns .... save for for those resulting from my forgetting to activate the Fuel Boost Pumps above 10,000 FT (a very long time ago though and when I was first learning therse panels .... during 2006), or tripping a wrong switch, or series of switches .... OR .... if I just get boared (and wreckless) and "INTENTIONALLY" decide to shut own an engine (or two) in order to try something different/more exciting like assymetric or iother emergency proedures, in order to see how things handle .... or rather .... how I handle these things/situations .... in FS

Mark C
AKL/NZ

[Herman]

In case anyone is interested, there is a B707 Fuel Management Tutorial by Hererton Dourado. It can be found in the HJG Download Section under Panels\Boeing.

Herman