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Post by ozflyer on Oct 9, 2017 19:54:50 GMT
i've jst download and successfully installed the QF 707-138. I'm looking forward to using this on some old Qantas routes. But this panel doesn't have the INS. I could I guess add another panel or insert the Civa INS into the panel. Did they only use VOR to VOR on long range flights back in the day? Is it possible? I'm not sure on FS9's accurate VOR range and whether its possible for all QF legs. Of course, it will be fun to try. I'm just curious how others here manage or do their long flights with no INS.
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Post by ozflyer on Oct 9, 2017 20:31:49 GMT
Actually, to answer my own question, after a bit of fooling around in the air, it will be next to impossible to fly a 'long haul' in a 707 without the INS. So if anybody has any suggestions how I can add one (Civa) to the panel cfg, that would be much appreciated.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 9, 2017 22:38:12 GMT
When you say long range VOR to VOR .... REMEMBER .... VOR only has a range of around 200 miles In FS that range is precisely 194 miles .... at best .... although some VOR´s, within FS, like that compiled into the default TISX scenery, and those of some of the other default Caribbean ports too, have far less range than that. In the case of our B707 panels .... only some of these (those for the -320, -320B/ADV, -320C, -420 and -700 .... from memory) are INS featured .... whilst the others (all earlier B707 versions), for reasons of both technical and historical accuracy, are (intentionally) not INS equipped. If the truth be known .... no B707´s (or even DC-8´s) during the 1960´s, 70s, and 80´s were ever INS equipped. Overwater aircraft were Dual Dopplar fitted .... but .... despite this´s, and our quest for period authenticiy (at the time of thse releases) we outfitted some of our B707 panels with our own INS (made by George CARTY ... and which works similar/almost identically to the CIVA navigation system) in the absence of a Dopplar type navigation system. It´s the best we could do In respect of really long range navigation though .... one doesn´t even really need INS assistance. I performed the following flight/s recently .... using VOR to VOR navigation .... tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thread/8576/boac-london-johannesburg-route-enactment.... BUT .... I only had charts to get me as far as Cairo, from london, via Frankfurt, Rome, and Athens .... after that I was on my own I resorted to a flat world map of the African continent .... and aided by a protractor, ruler, and a pair of dividers .... I plotted the remainder of this trip toward Johannesburg .... GOOGLE searching the VOR and NDB frequencies associated with each of the major airports I was flying from and to, and then determining the track between these, and then using "dead reckoning" philosophy (distance covered on the basis of airspeed, direction, elapsed time, and estimated drift) in order to navigate the remainder of my trip down the African continent. Some FS panels have a built-in GPS (most of ours don´t though .... intentionally) .... but .... using it (to me) is insultingly easy and simply "not challenging enough" (for me at least) .... essentially robbing one of a the fun (I feel) as well as a sense of accomplishment upon the completion of such an extensive navigational exercise such as that which I´ve linked above .... not to mention the very real prospect/danger of becoming lost en-route too in the event of any inadvertent miscalculations during ones navigation planning, but, which I fortunately avoided Mark C BOG/CO
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Post by ozflyer on Oct 10, 2017 4:29:56 GMT
Thank you Mark. I installed the Civa INS into the 707. And flew one flight to trial it from SYD-MEL. Everything worked as planned. Wow, what a fun flight, and great aircraft!! The INS worked perfectly (apart from a couple of slightly wrong coordinates..oops), but with some VOR's i could pick, I managed to keep on track thereabouts and touchdown into Melbourne. Is Flap 50 (-138 model) the usual landing flap setting? I was heavy on arrival - 240,000lbs or so. And I needed a lOT of thrust just to maintain the vref speed. In fact almost full thrust. Is this normal? Should I delay using Flap 50 in this case? Is Flap 40 a landing flap setting? Anyway, I loved it on the short 1 hour leg. Can't wait to try a longer leg soon.
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Post by walterleo on Oct 10, 2017 9:33:52 GMT
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Post by Nathan Ford - HJG on Oct 10, 2017 12:29:16 GMT
Haha, I was just getting online to mention Skyvector Walter, a brilliant resource.
Nathan
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 10, 2017 12:58:56 GMT
A "West Islander" .... OOPS I mean an "Aussie" .... I take it Flying the "SKIPPY"/QF B707´s too .... I presume "YES" .... FLAP 50/FULL FLAPS is/was normal for the B707-138, B707-138B .... and other B707´s too .... although by the 1980´s some B707 (and DC-8) operators were using less than full flaps as a noise reduction procedure except in emergencies. Use "FULL FLAPS" though .... that´s FLAP 30 for T/O (if at MGW) .... and FLAP 50 for landing (regardless). "YES" one will require "a lot! of power on approach to landing and when using full flaps so as to counter the drag of both the flaps and landing gear .... if not also to reduce engine spoolup time (the early turbojet powered B707/DC-8 engines were very slow spoolers .... and which is auhentically replicated within each of these simulations, so, one shouldný ever get behind the power curve .... or one could end up in real trouble .... stay ahead of whatever´s developing ) in the event of any missed approach. On approach to landing one shouldn´t ever be "heavy" though (240,000 LBS is pretty close to MGW for the B707-120/B/138/B SERIES) .... as that "will" cause problems and require far more power than is sensible in order to maintain a good, and stable, approach profile prior to landing. Regardless whether or not one is flying with a full payload (PAX and freight .... and which is never a problem .... unless one needs to further extend range whereby the virtual payload might need being reduced in order to accomodate additional virtual fuel), then, one shouldn´t ever be landing with more than 15%-20% total fuel remaining. The MLW for the B707-138/B (same certificate as the -120/B) is around 180,000 LBS .... or "less" typically/preferrably .... and the much lighter weight "does" make a whole world of difference flying these simulations during the approach to landing and as should be the case too By default all HJG supplied simulations (including the B707´s) load into FS with 100% fuel and payload. One is then expected to reduce fuel or payload, or both, in order to set each simulation at/near it´s MGW (firstly) and to accomodate the duration of ones intended trip (secondly). Payload and fuel planning in accordance with ones intended route/trip are "absolutely vital" using any of these simulations. Arrive too heavy and one will find the AI pitch attitude will tend towards being excessively high .... and one will likely then require "a lot" of power in order to generate the airspeed necessary to encourge the nose back down .... but .... also then risking a fast/overspeed landing too. Arrive light (within the 20% total fuel remainig guideline) and the entire approach to landing profile, subject to airspeed, will be "a whole lot" better in comparison with the above scenario. Mark C BOG/CO & AKL/NZ
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Post by ozflyer on Oct 10, 2017 19:32:09 GMT
Yeah I'm Aussie. New Zealand? Where is that again? Yeah I was using the 'flying rat', QF 707-138. Well done on the FDE too. It seemed to handle much if what i thought a 707 might be like from what I've read and seen. Yeah I knew it was pushing the MLW limit on arrivale. I wanted to take-off at MTOW to see how much of YSSY's runway 34L I'd use. Quite a lot of it. Being only a short flight to YMML, I knew i'd be landing heavy. Now to prepare another flight. Great fun!
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 11, 2017 1:27:00 GMT
New Zealand? Where is that again?It´s that great big land mass loccated to the right/east of "little" Australia .... on the map it´s "pink" .... or it used to be before the commonwealth started to fall apart During a MGW T/O .... their won´t be a lot of change/length left out of a 10,000FT-12,000FT RWY .... but .... use "MAX POWER" (if one´s at/near SL) and FLAP 30. Glad you´re enjoying our B707´s anyway Make sue you´re using our/George CARTY´s B707/720/C135 TYPE panels (customised for our B707 range) .... as well as our own B707/720/C135 soundpacks too. If you´re not sure what to use or what goes with what, then, post accordingly and we´ll be glad to try´n sort you out Mark C BOG/CO & AKL/NZ
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Post by ozflyer on Oct 11, 2017 12:29:31 GMT
I've got plenty of Kiwi friends. They're always reminding me of where NZ is. And of the Bledisloe Cup... Thank you, Mark. I'm pretty sure I've put the right Panels and sound together for the -138. I believe its the early one with the water-injection? Cool to see that in operation. Yeah it uses a LOT of runway...as I'v read. The only thing I can't see to get working is the dirt black effects smoke? I've added the effects files to the folder but I only get the regular contrails. I was hoping to add some more 'diesel' to the environmen.
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Post by walterleo on Oct 11, 2017 13:10:50 GMT
Hi friends:
Just remembered a procedure learned in real flight-training: If there is a long distance between two VOR´s (more than 400 nm) let fly the AP coupled to the station, when the signal dies change to heading hold so you will fly the correction angle for the wind, change the frequency to the next station and if its signal comes in, switch to VOR following again. At most cases the correction will be minimal as long as the wind aloft is not changing too much. At times our HJG airliners still flew in real there was still room for manuevering as airspace was not so cramped with traffic as today.
Kind regards
Walter
Kind regards
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 11, 2017 16:38:33 GMT
A heavy smoker aye OK .... here´s what you need to be sure you´re using .... 1. "B707-138" (not B707-138B) aircraft base pack and associated FDE .... see the "B707-120" downloads page .... "B707-138" section (all QF subjets there) on that page. 2. "B707-138 1959" panel (not B707-138B) and "B707/720 PANEL CORE FILES/GAUGES" package .... see PANELS/BOEING downloads page. 3. "B367-80/B707/B720 EFFECTS FILES" .... see EFFECTS/ALL MODELS downloads page. 4. "P&W JT3C & JT4A TURBOJET B707-120, -138, -220, -320; B720" soundpack .... see SOUNDS/BOEING downloads page. Make sure you have the correct panel and aircraft base pack version (as described above) assigned togetherk .... and the necessry panel gauges/core files suite installed. The soundpack is optional, but, "authentic" .... although it´s FS2004 customised only at this stage, however, it can be used in FSX. So long as you´ve got everything configured correctly .... aircraft base pack and panel primrily .... and the supporting smoke effects and all other components inside the correct FS destination folders also .... then everything should work superbly well. Engine exhaust smoke is generated "automatically" at high RPM .... but .... "only if using our panels and smoke effects" .... otherwise these effects can´t work correctly. The recommended //O procedure using the water/methanol injection system for B367-80. B707-120, B707-138, DC-8-SHIP ONE 1958, and DC-8-11/12 (only) is as follows .... - Line up on the RWY threshold. - Lock the braks "ON". - Apply "MAXIMUM POWER" .... then .... engage each of the Water Injection switches .... they will each light up individually after being engaged (this process may take 20-30 seconds). - Once all 4 WI lights (on the main panel) are illuminated .... then commence your T/O roll. PLEASE NOTE .... the water/methanol injection system provides a roughly 7% boost in engine thrust and per engine .... but .... for approximately 3 minutes only (as was the case with these real world aircraft also). The associated heavy smoke effects only last for the duration of the WI thrust agumemtatio also .... and then subside completely. Once these heavy smoke effects subside, then, that´s it so far as they´re concerned´.... these effects (for the B367-80, B707-120, B707-138, DC-8-SHIP ONE 1958, and DC-8-11/12 simulations only) are "not" permanent. That´s the way it´s all intended to work. So far as our "HEAVY" smoke effects (again which apply to our B367-80. B707-120, B707-138, DC-8-SHIP ONE 1958, and DC-8-11/12 only) are concerned then this´s what you should be seeing .... These effects associated with all other smoke featured HJG simulations are both "lighter" .... and remain "permanent" depending on engine RPM . Mark C BOG/CO & AKL/NZ
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Post by ozflyer on Oct 11, 2017 19:02:42 GMT
Hi friends: Just remembered a procedure learned in real flight-training: If there is a long distance between two VOR´s (more than 400 nm) let fly the AP coupled to the station, when the signal dies change to heading hold so you will fly the correction angle for the wind, change the frequency to the next station and if its signal comes in, switch to VOR following again. At most cases the correction will be minimal as long as the wind aloft is not changing too much. At times our HJG airliners still flew in real there was still room for manuevering as airspace was not so cramped with traffic as today. Kind regards Walter Kind regards Good idea, i'll have to try that. Yes, I have all the above installed correctly, Mark. Everything works as advertised. I've completed two 5-6 hour flights very successfully. But I don't see any of the black smoke on the runway. No biggie but it makes the screenshots look a lot better.
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Oct 11, 2017 19:25:43 GMT
Did you set "MAX" power .... plus .... have all 4 water/methanol injection switches "ON" ? You need to firewall the thrust levers (you can do that wiht a turbojet rengine but not with the later fanjet engines) .... AND ALSO .... when the WI switches are each selected "ON" it can take some 20-30 seconds, or so, for these to illuminate (they´ll illuminate simultaneously and not all together) .... SO .... "don´t" commence your T/O roll until all 4 lights illuminate and at which point you should also notice a roughly 7% spike/increase in indicated engine thrust. Once the WI thrust augmentation is exhausted .... after 3 minutes (approx) .... you´ll then notice a 7% fluctuation in engine thust and across all 4 engines once agai .... and it at arounf this time also that the fireworks (smoke effects) all stop working too. See how you go .... you might not have been setting "FULL POWER" and/or you might have been commencing your T/O roll before the thrust augmentation had occurred .... and effectivel before engine RPM was high enough to auto-trigger these smoke effcts Mark C BOG/CO & AKL/NZ
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Post by ozflyer on Oct 11, 2017 19:41:36 GMT
The blue lights definitely on and 'water-injection' working. Effects files in the effects folder. And the cfg has the effects line as well. Little odd but all good. Not the end of the world.
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