Before I begin...

[petey]

Hey guys, Petey here. Back in July I repainted a couple of aircraft from you guys, I'd like to do a repaint of the CFM 707-700 in a fictional VA's scheme. I just wanted to make sure it was OK (with the conditions you guys told me about back then) before I even started the planning part. Thanks again for a great looking product!!

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

I've got no problem with that "PETEY" .... so long as the finished product remains "FREE" for all who want to enjoy it .... and so long as HJG and the model author (Gary CARLSON) is clearly acknowldged.

In fact when you're livery is done you might like to post an image "here" .... along with the a link .... so folk who want it may do so with ease.

Mark C
BOG/CO

[petey]

Thanks Mark. As always it will be free and uploded to my favorite source site, flightsim.com. This will be a "what-if" of an airline based in Mexico called Viaje de Islas, a scheduled server to the Caribbean from Mexico City. I'll begin work on it next week and be sure to post my finished product right here first.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

Muchismas gracias "PETEY" .... a la orden !

Mark C
BOG/CO

[petey]

I'm still researching this project but I have a sort of technical question first. I know a CFM powered 707 would not only be economical but pretty fast. But...and speaking theoritically here, which would be faster, a CFM 707-700 or the Convair CV-990 Coronado? The idea is to get them there fast. I know the Coronado was one of the fastest airliners built and am examining the data there, but since the 707-700 wasn't a production a/c could it have been as fast?

[garryrussell]

Hi Petey

If it were me I would compare the DC 8-61 to the 71,the 62 to the 72 and the 63 to the 73 and get an idea how much difference in speed there was with those engines and see how that compares to the known 707-700 figures compared to the 320B.

Would there be a lot of difference in speed? as the airframe can be pulled trough the air only so fast and the speeds were pretty well up there anyway unlike re engining a piston with a turbo prop which would have a great speed advantage.

Just a suggestion

Garry

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

But...and speaking theoritically here, which would be faster, a CFM 707-700 or the Convair CV-990 Coronado?

Definitety the CV990-A "CORONADO" was faster .... there's no doubt about that

That sucker could hurtle along at MACH 0.97 once it was modified. Only it's fuel burn at high cruise MACH was horrendous .... it could barely manage US transcontinental services (for which it was intended) even under the best of conditions With 5 abreast seating too it also lacked the PAX capacity to be really economical

If you want to understand more about both the CV880 & CV990 then read my histories on our "AIRCRAFT HISTORIES" page .... entitled "CONVAIR's CALAMITY (part 1) - THE CV880" .... and .... "CONVAIR's CALAMITY (part 2) - THE CV880" .... these will tell you most of what you need to know about the CONVAIR jetliners.

I know a CFM powered 707 would not only be economical but pretty fast

The one and only B707-700 conversion to CFM 56 turbofans I don't believe change the speed of the aircraft, but, it most certainly reduced the aircrafts fuel burn rate (by about 23% as I recall) and made it more economical that way It probably would have been quite successful too .... had it not been for the fact that the B707 was already and ageing design .... and more importantly too .... the CFM engine upgrade it was a very expensive conversion to perform on B707's in terms of the practicalities of airline economics This modification (as I recall) was far more extensive than just changing the engines and beefing the wings. Because the B707 sits much closer to the ground than the DC8 it would also have required longer legs/landing gear too .... "VERY VERY EXPENSIVE".

Most airlines elected in favour for more modern/advanced twin engine technology such as B757 & B767 as B707 replacements.

You'd really do much better to take on the DC8 SUPER 70 series ! ;D

Mark C

[petey]

Thanks Mark and Gary. While being a "virtual" airline I'd still like Viaje to have some grounds in reality. The range doesn't sound so much like something I need for MEX to Caribbean destinations but economy might be. I've seen some very nice private DC-8's come and go from here in Fresno and on airliners.net, painting one in a natural metal finish would be awesome. Let me look the ones you guys offer over through the weekend and if I need to change the subject I'll let you know. I do appreciate the info, thank you!!!

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

The CV990 is still a lovely airplne to fly !

Get it up to altitude .... and hoofing along at anytrhing between MACH 0.92 and MAC 0.97. Tthere's something really magical about that .... even in FS. In fact it often feels a shame to eventually have to start slowing up .... and comming back down again as ones destination beckons.

About the CV990's range limitations. It was only by going "balls to the wall" that it could hardly (if at call) make transcontinental flights acros the USA. When the price of fuel started going through the roof through the 1970's and 1980's airlines like MODERN AIR, and SPANTAX progressively wound their standard cruising speeds all the way down to MACH 0.86 .... and as they did so the aircraft range increaded quite dramatically .... to the extent that one MODERN AIR charter is know to have operated Philladelphia/Vienna "NON-STOP".

Quite incredible really .... and an evwen more incredible aircraft too !

Mark C
BOG/CO

[petey]

I often go to Mojave on business and have taken the Spaceport tour several times. Somewhere I have a nice picture of the CV-990 on the entry way with me, I'll have to have it scanned. There's a lot of interesting curves on the Coronado, painting it and proper shading would have to be done for a realistic looking metal finish. Not too "chrome" really, but shiny non the less. The livery is going to be simple; think American Airlines but with red, white and green on metal. Coronado's would have been inexpensive in the mid to late 1960's I would think so a second line carrier would have been able to get one or two from US airlines passing them down. Let me talk to the other principal in this deal and see what he thinks before swapping our options. I really like the concept though.

[aerofoto - HJG Admin]

I often go to Mojave on business and have taken the Spaceport tour several times. Somewhere I have a nice picture of the CV-990 on the entry way with me, I'll have to have it scanned.

That must be the old AEROLINEAS PERUNAS bird !

Coronado's would have been inexpensive in the mid to late 1960's

They were cheap because most prospective carriers either didn't want or couldn't afford to operate them.

Interestingly SWISAIR, MODERN AIR, and SPANTAX were about the only carriers whom were really able to operate the CV990 succesfully/profitably.

a second line carrier would have been able to get one or two from US airlines passing them down

That's precisely what happened in the case of LEBANESE INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES, and MEA .... both of whom acquired ex AMERICAN AIRLINES CV990's .... as did MODERN AIR, and SPANTAX (for some of their large fleet of the type) and a number of other shortlived inclusive tour operators as well.

Mark C
BOG/CO

[petey]

Mark, there are two CV-990's listed at Mojave, one was in NASA colors for a while, last time I was there it was being repainted and was stripped. The other is the APSA aircraft. Both are in very bad shape despite the sterile conditions. There are a lot of 880's though, a whole row of them.

Here's some of the research I've been looking at lately. This one includes a plea to save the last airworthy example. www.air-and-space.com/Convair%20990.htm

The aircraft I remember seeing was the old Ports of Call Denver aicraft, I found some pics on airliners.net of the one with the blue tail, that's close to the paint shceme I think I'll do.

[petey]

Over the weekend the other principal in this effort and I discussed going with the CV-990, and possibly changing the location of the airlines HQ. We both agree that the CV-990 will be the aircraft we'd like to use, and now we're looking at moving from Mexico City to a South American hub. This also leads us to change our liver from red, white and green to something else. I'm going to spend a few days looking at other carriers from Venezuela for schemes. Service will remain to the Caribbean to be sure and the name will also remain.