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Post by mstrmoe on Jan 1, 2014 2:48:51 GMT
I noticed that there's a 1972 - N8783R - DC-8-54JT painted in American Airlines silver. I know AA got DC-8s from Trans Caribbean, but were they ever painted in American Airlines silver in real life? It was my understanding that they were transferred immediately or soon after the merger, and were not repainted in AA colors. Thanks for the info!
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jan 1, 2014 8:54:30 GMT
Just over a year ago we had quite an interesting discussion about this .... right here on this forum (obviously). We know AMERICAN acquired TRANS CARIBBEAN AIRLINES DC8's as part of its acquisition of that particular airline back in the eerly 1970's. Based on certain information we had at the time .... it was "assumed" that at least one of these DC8's actually went into AA livery .... BUT .... a little while after this forum discussion one of our members presented me with some "much more thorough" evidence (privately) and which proved, conclusively, that "none" of the ex TCA DC8's never went into AA livery .... SO .... you're understanding is actually "QUITE CORRECT".AA leased these DC8's out almost immediately upon their acquisition .... but .... I can't remember to whom .... and they then later disposed of/sold them completely. Technically speaking we/HJG should now withdraw that particular AA DC8-50JT texture .... because it's "NOT" a realworld subject and which is what HJG prides itself in specialising  Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by 747braniffplace on Jan 1, 2014 19:44:07 GMT
Hello, everyone
Mark, I could swear within the past year, I read someplace that when the DC10's were grounded many airlines started to snap up anything they could find for the short-term. It seems like AA picked up at least one DC8 for deployment on pacific routes / Hawaii and the aircraft mentioned was in fact painted in AA colors? Now I've got to try and find that information. I've slept since then, lol...
Happy New Years!
James
DFW-TX
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jan 1, 2014 23:58:08 GMT
"YES" .... apart from their ex TCA acquisitions which they/AA never actually operated, they did also pick up some DC8's (on lease) during the 1979 DC10 groundings .... but .... it's also been made fairly evident, now (on the basis of a private discussion .... after last years forum based one), that none of the ex TCA DC8', or any other DC8's temporarily acquired by AA, ever supported the airlines livery .... and despite what I thought I'd seen at LAX during April 1980.
Mark C
AKL/NZ
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Post by mstrmoe on Jan 3, 2014 0:45:06 GMT
Very interesting, thanks so much for the info!
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Post by mstrmoe on Jan 3, 2014 0:56:14 GMT
And I'll just add on while I'm here: I really appreciate HJG's devotion to realism. I'm currently in the process of attempting to obtain every single aircraft that the new American (all previous airlines incorporated included) has ever flown. I've spent plenty of time going through old photos of All American Airways, TWA, PSA, Allegheny, Ozark, etc etc, and getting aircraft as little known as the BAe 146 that AA flew in Royal West colors for a time. HJG makes it pretty easy to get the older aircraft in historical liveries and it's much appreciated!
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Post by ZippCalculator on Jan 3, 2014 1:57:33 GMT
\ Technically speaking we/HJG should now withdraw that particular AA DC8-50JT texture .... because it's "NOT" a realworld subject and which is what HJG prides itself in specialising Does that mean the Trans Global Airlines 707 will have to go? |
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jan 3, 2014 2:22:26 GMT
"NO" .... because these are both "completely different situastions"  The AA acquired DC8's never supported definitive AA livery .... or even a hybrid variation of it for that matter. The TRANS GLOBAL liveried B707-320C (actually the prop for the first "AIRPORT" movie), "did", by virtue of the fact that it's a real world aircraft, support the livery depicted .... and despite the fact that it is essentislly a "BULLnuts" airline. What I'm trying to say here is .... One subject is "convenient" by the standards of HJG criteria/protocol (by virtue of the fact that it actually existed) .... whereas the other subject didn't exist, at all, althougth in the case of this one particular subject, we didn't know that until it was "proven" very recently  Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by mstrmoe on Jan 3, 2014 20:34:00 GMT
Now with the DC-8s that American leased during the DC-10 grounding: What livery were those in and what did they look like? Did they say "American" anywhere on the aircraft?
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jan 3, 2014 23:48:14 GMT
Some were leased in .... as mentioned above There wasn't a lot of them though. They may have came from more than one source/operator too .... as I recall .... only I can't recall which operators/leasors were involved. They didn't stay very long either (the DC10 grounding lasted from around June 6th until July 13th 1979 .... although its impact, in terms of PAX and freight backlogs, were felt for a consideably longer period). And .... "NONE" were ever repainted into AA livery .... or otherwise rebranded either. The only reason a definitively AA liveried DC8-50JT appears at HJG, at all, is because during 1980 (on April 29th 1980 .... to be precise) I thought I saw "part of the tail" of one sticking out from behind an AA terminal jetway at LAX .... and which seemed to support AA livery. I though it strange at the time .... and for that reason I've never forgotten it. It most certainly wasn't a CV990 because they were all "long gone" by this time .... and nor was it a B707 or B720 either as there's absolutely no confusing the DC8/B707 tail or dorsal fin, so, whatever I saw, that got my attention, that day, and eventually sparked the HJG repaint (along with past suggestions that at least 1 DC8 might have continued in AA servie until April 1980) .... remains "A COMPLETE MYSTERY".I still swear that what I saw, at LAX, late that afternoon, was, indeed, a DC8. I've been around civil aircraft for more than 35 years now .... and .... don't, normally, mistake details any more than I'm inclined toward hallucinating either .... BUT .... history ("confirmed history" .... at least) indicates that what I saw couldn't have been a DC8. It's just that I couldn't see enough of the aircraft, from my adjacent Terminal vantage point, in order to be able to positively identify it Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 0:55:44 GMT
Mark,
There is possibility. Let me illustrate an example. Eastern bought two 742s from Qantas which painted Eastern liveries on Qantas 742s at Sydney airport and everybody saw rare Eastern livery on 742s that nobody knew especially Eastern pilots even right now never knew about that but two weeks later, Eastern cancelled the purchase meaning that Qantas had to re-paint Qantas livery over Eastern livery on two 742s.
My point is that there would be possibility that American Airlines painted AA livery on one of DC-8s at KLAX to prepare for possibility of emergency use of DC-8 to substitute grounded DC-10s and then one or two or three weeks later, American Airlines changed its mind and repainted on the DC-8 the livery of whoever bought or leased the plane which never took off in AA livery.
That is my theory.
Regards,
Aharon
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Post by Dee Waldron - HJG on Jan 4, 2014 1:17:00 GMT
That's a good theory except that AA's maintenance facility at LAX is only "mid-level", so they never did any whole painting of aircraft there. That work always happened at either DFW or OK city facility.
The DC-10 grounding was before my time at AA, but more senior co-workers there talked about the time, and contracting of sub carriers such as Trans America, and World to take up some of the slack. There may of been 1 or 2 others, but those were 2 of the names I remember being mentioned.
Dee
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Jan 4, 2014 7:13:51 GMT
Extremly unlikely .... I should think .... given (a) the cost of actually painting/rebranding any aircraft .... (b) excluding additional or substitute lift requirements (like that which might arise as the result of any crisis) the DC8 simply doesn't fit into the 1979/80 AA fleet .... and (c) it was confirmed, last year, and then mentioned, by me, earlier within this thread, that "NONE" of the DC8's, apparently leased by AA during the 1979 DC10 grounding, ever supported or were otherwise rebranded with the AA livery/name. Dee .... the name TRANS CONTINENTAL AIRLINES seems to suddenly spring to my mind. AA might have wet-leased "some" DC8's from them (if they operated them as early as the late 1970's) .... for freight operations. In fact AA's entire brief association with the DC8, during this period, might have been for freight hauling only .... due to the cargo backlog imposed by the DC10 grounding. About the QF/EAL B742 deal ....and just to digress for a moment also .... I think there were 2 ex QF B742's involved .... but .... only one of these aircraft (VH-EBD/N371EA .... it supported dual registrations just prior to the intended hand over) ever supported full/definitive EAL livery .... during March 1980. EAL ultimately "did/lost a fair bit of money" on that particular deal .... since they paid for the rebranding of the aircraft into EAL livery .... but then .... also had to pay for the unbranding the same aircraft when it went back into QF livery after the deal didn't go through. VH-EBD then went back into QF service, during April 1980, and remained with the airline until March 1985 .... www.aussieairliners.org/b-747/vh-ebd/vhebd.htmlCamilo and I represented (since we didn't paint it entirely ourselves) this particular QF/EAL B742 subject (VH-EBD/N371EA) for the POSKY P&W JT9D-7A model ..... featuring dual registrations .... just as it appeared, at SYD, when it was first rolled-out in EAL livery on March 17th 1980, but, we never released this texture publicly ....  Mark C AKL/NZ |
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Post by 747braniffplace on Jan 4, 2014 14:01:50 GMT
Mark,
It's a shame N371EA was never released...it's a beauty!!!
James
DFW-TX
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Post by mstrmoe on Jan 4, 2014 19:56:16 GMT
In regards to "Trans Continental Airlines": Perhaps it was Trans International Airlines? I know AA's DC-8s went to them, perhaps they leased them back during the DC-10 crisis Additionally, I did some digging on planespotters and I couldn't immediately find any DC-8s that were leased to AA during the '79 grounding. But I did find this aircraft that was actually leased back to American and given an American Airlines registration, very interesting: www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Douglas/DC-8/45803,N6842-American-Airlines.php |
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