BA Boeing 777 Crash

[Tarasdad]

From some other photographs that have shown up on the web it appears that the port engine was under power at the time of impact but the starboard engine was either windmilling or stopped, not under power. Reports are also that the autopilot commanded a power increase but the engines did not respond, nor did they respond when the pilots shoved the throttles forward to try and increase power. Photo evidence is inconclusive, but it appears that the RAT (Ram Air Turbine) may have either deployed or been in the process of deploying at the time of the crash. The APU was definitely on, although whether it was fully powered up is still in question.

Fortunately the airframe, flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder are all (relatively) intact, so answers to the question of what happened should be forthcoming in fairly short order. What the absolute cause was may take longer, but the immediate cause(s) should be known.

It is very, VERY fortunate that the aircraft didn't impact just a couple of hundred feet shorter or it would have come down in the forest of approach lights. That would have been a bad thing. A VERY bad thing.

[benh]

....Or even worse crushed Hatton Cross Train station

Ben

[Herman]

Hello SkyKing;

I am only second guessing too, but would it not depend, at what point in time during the approach the loss of power occured? I would think, that with the gear and flaps down, the decrease in airspeed would be extreemly rapid, such that an extra 10 knots would not really provide a substancial safety margin, unless you were quite close to the
runway threshold.

Herman

[skyking]

For the most part you are correct. But every little bit helps. My primary reason for carrying the extra speed was in case we lost ONE or TWO engines, or wind changes, etc., not ALL engines! They had their hands full for sure! When I flew the two-engine stuff I flew a little above the G/S and carried an extra 15 knots sometimes. Naturally, runway length, wind, etc. came into play. That's why I liked the four-engine stuff!!

[Herman]

I understand what you are saying Skyking. I would assume that probably most airline crews add that little extra speed for safety's sake.

Herman

[skyking]

>>>"I would assume that probably most airline crews add that little extra speed for safety's sake."

I only wish that were true. There have been a number of accidents where that extra ten knots would have saved the day.

Of course there's been an equal or greater number of cases where the airplane just shouldn't have been where it was either!!

[garryrussell]

Speculation is pointless and in this case way off the mark

preliminary finding

www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/latest_news/accident__heathrow_17_january_2008___initial_report.cfm

Garry

[skyking]

>>>"Speculation is pointless and in this case way off the mark"

As I said in my initial remarks, I was NOT trying to second guess the Captain, or Co-Pilot for that matter, in this incident.

It is painfully clear that for whatever reason, the engines failed to respond to commands from the computers and crew.

I would comment though that I thought only the Airbus aircraft had thrust levers that, with computer/power failure, could not be overridden by the crew, whereas the Boeing aircraft could. Guess we need someone who is qualified to clear that up.

[benh]

The thrust levers are computer controlled in most boeings built since the advent of the 767.

Ben

[Dan K. Hansen]

garryrussell said:

Speculation is pointless and in this case way off the mark

Well spoken Garry, and let us stop any kind of speculations as of now, in order not to fall into the general pre-assumptions normally used by the press.

Fact is that there was a crash, and luckily all where able to walk away. That count as a successful landing in my book.

I'm sure that we'll all get to know the exact reason in due time.

[skyking]

Perhaps the attached link might be of interest to those interested in the difference between Boeing and Airbus, at least at the time the article was written (September 29, 2005).

The part in the Q and A about the THROTTLES is most interesting.

www.airlinesafety.com/faq/777DataFailure.htm

[gus]

Hello,

The debat about the difference of the handling of the power (how throttles levers act and how are managed and controlled by the computers the inputs) between Airbuses and Boeing birds is old like the world
It's as his con and pro.
A nice debat and plenty argumentations from each battle sides poping up again after the disaster of the Airbus A320-200 (GOL) at the Sao Paulo Congonhas airport Brasil.
BTW I still waiting a consistent report about this contreversial disaster !
Apologises for this as it's of topic (so far !)

Regards.

[Dan K. Hansen]

I think we are diverting here, so I'll just lock this one, as I can't see any progress in the thread.