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Post by emmemm on Feb 2, 2014 19:12:38 GMT
Hi all,
AFAIK the CV 880M was equiped with leading edge devices. Four slats per wing, two each between the engines and outboard of the engines, plus Kruger flaps between inner engines and the fuselage. But I see nothing of these devices at the HJG 880M model, only the normal trailing edge flaps. I ‘ve installed all files according to the instructions. Are they not modeled or may be something wrong in my installation?
Manfred
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Feb 2, 2014 20:37:47 GMT
The CV880-22M "was" equipped with LE edge device .... as you say .... where-as the original CV880-22 version wasn't. These LE devices "ARE NOT" (unfortunately) represented on the 3D model (which originates from the FS2002 days) .... "H-O-E-V-E-R" .... the effect/advantages of these leading devises (during T/O and landing) "IS" still modelled/represented into the FDE for both the CV880-22M and -22M FREIGHTER .... SO .... your HJG virtual flight experience using these aircraft will/should still be a very accurate one none-the-less The CV880-22 and -22M were both capable of cruising airspeeds of around MACH 0.88 to MACh 0.89 (at FL310).... BUT .... the stalling speed of the CV880-22M version, in particular, should be around 10 KTS slower than than of the original -22 version .... and which was the case in the real world too. The HJG Cv880-22M versions should also be advantaged by a slight shorter T/O roll as well. Extending the flaps "by 1 knoth" should also be the equivalent of extending the LE devices also .... on the CV880-22M versions only. Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by emmemm on Feb 2, 2014 23:15:26 GMT
Thank you for the quick answer and the informations. By the way, there is a texture for "kruger inside" in the wing-right-top texture and that had made me uncertain.
MM
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Post by Dee Waldron - HJG on Feb 3, 2014 3:08:12 GMT
I'm confused... I did build both versions of this aircraft. The M22 model does (or did?) have the LE devices animated. What happened to the M22 model? Dee
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Feb 3, 2014 8:37:16 GMT
Probably no more than I was earlier on today Dee .... BUT .... I've solved most of this issue now .... I believe Dee actially built 4 CV880 3D models for HJG and which are as follows .... - CV880-22 SHIP ONE - CV880-22 - CV880-22M - CV880-22 FREIGHTER (with an animated cargo door)The CV880-22M 3D model "DOES" feature LE devices .... only the dara necessary to make these work is, currently, missing from the FDE for this particular simulation, but, can still be added in order to make these devices work HJG also hosts a CV880-22M FREIGHTER (with an animated cargo door) too .... but .... this particular model is a duplication of the standard CV880-22 FREIGHTER 3D model due to the source code for these models having, apparently, been accidentally lost shortly after the -22 FREIGHTER model was compiled .... and due to that fact this particular model (-22M FREIGHTER) therefore lacks its animated LE devices. This was the foundation of my own confusion of earlier today .... SORRY !!!! "SEE MY REPORT BELOW" .... which should clarify everything quite adequately Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Feb 3, 2014 8:40:52 GMT
"SOMETHING" .... isn't right here .... and it'd been bugging me all day. In fact it "bugged me sufficiently" to take time off another new HJG project today in order to review a few old details. During this process I turned my mind back to around December 2003 .... when the CV880-22, CV880-22M, and CV990-A were first released by the original HJG .... for FS2002. The more I thought about these original releases .... then the more sure I became that the original HJG CV880-22M model did in fact feature LE Flap animations .... back then. "It must have done" .... I thought .... because it's one of the primary differences between the CV990-22 and the -22M !!!! Fotunately .... I still had a copy of both the original HJG CV880-22 and -22M base pack for FS2002 .... and when I checked the FLAP data within the -22M CFG file .... I quickly confirmed that it "MOST CERTAINLY DID" feature LE FLAP data whereas, to my surprise, this same data seems to be missing from the currently hosted FS2004 version (I assume the same must also apply to the FSX CFG version too)and which is why the LE edge devices aren't now working on the CV880-22M model. This file has been like this since around 2008 (possibly earlier though) at least .... when the FDE for these was last modified. ANYWAY .... Following my hunch .... I applied a few edits to my own FS2004 CFG (there's no point in my posting this data for everyone, yet, since it's going to have to be tested/verified properly) and managed to coax the LE devices into extending .... as can be seen per the following imagery .... As I implied within my reply to Dee's posting (above) .... I think my earlier oppinion (confusion) came about because the CV880-22M FREIGHTER (the very last version of the CV880's to be worked up by HJG) "MOST CERTAINLY" lacks wing LE device animations .... only through it having been respresented per duplication of the standard HJG CV880-22 FREIGHTER 3D model "and for the reason stated within the last posting". Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by emmemm on Feb 3, 2014 13:17:07 GMT
Oooh, interesting development! Nice to see that my question could lead to an improvement of the 'M' model and I looking forward anxienty if there is a solution. Manfred
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Feb 3, 2014 18:16:06 GMT
It's not an improvement "as such" .... because the LE devices were already compiied into the CV880-22M (only) 3D model.
It's just the supporting CFG data seems to have been "dropped" as a result of an update/modification to the FDE files for this particular simulation somewhere between 2003 and 2008 .... and which is "interesting" because Mike and I have never touched the CV880 or CV990 FDE's at any stage.
ANYWAY ....
As my above report implies .... I've now got the wing LE devices working, but, now have to try'n analyse this edit to see how it impacts flight performance and what other changes, if any, might become necessary as a result (the inclusion/re-inclusion of these wing LE devices) in order to ensure that everything is "balanced" and results in a "reasonably accurate" CV880-22M experience in FS.
Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by Dee Waldron - HJG on Feb 4, 2014 2:36:10 GMT
Oh good! Then my dementia isn't quite as advanced as I worried it might be. Dee
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on Feb 4, 2014 13:35:54 GMT
Mark, Looks like Connecticut is heading for another snow day tomorrow (12"+ Argghh will the winter never end? ) Anyway, maybe I'll take the time stuck at home to get more familiar with the convair. Mike
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Post by Falcon on Feb 4, 2014 15:04:58 GMT
[ Looks like Connecticut is heading for another snow day tomorrow (12"+ Argghh will the winter never end? ] No, winter is not going to end Mike, here in KAZO we have had 80" so far, 46 in Jan. Feb is starting out the same! People here are getting just a might testy. Me? When not moving snow, I'm simming! Great approaches in the Lake effect snow belt area!
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on Feb 4, 2014 18:25:41 GMT
That 12"+ I mentioned is just the forecast for tomorrow's total. And it looks like we have a doozy setting up for next Monday. While not at 80", we are around 40" total here for the year, which is already about 10" above the average for early February. I'll get some quality time with the Convair tomorrow.
Mike
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Feb 4, 2014 18:56:44 GMT
OK Mike .... "THANKS" for that "SIT TIGHT" (since i'm about to complete the sale of a building at the moment) .... and I'll try'n send you some data. I've got Kruger LE edge flaps working (as per my above imagery) .... and with an apparent performance enhancement too .... BUT .... I can't remember if the HJG CV880-22M 3D model features LE Slats too. "IF" it does .... THEN .... I've not, yet, managed to got these working. The real world CV880-22M (which of course includes later CV880-22M AIRLIFTER freighter conversions of original -22M aircraft) was fitted with Kruger LE flaps between the fuselage and # 2 and # 3 engine pylons .... and then 2 LE Flap panels each located between engine pylons and the wing tips and # 1 and # 4 engines too. The addition of these features resulted "approach" airspeeds "for the CV880-22M" (only) being reduced from 191 KTS to 179 KTS and its stalling speed also being reduced from 137 KTS to 121 KTS (these numbers might appear "QUITE HIGH", but, are quoted directly from "the book" .... in any case the CV880-22 and -22M were both rekown for being very fast/quick "over the fence" in comparison with B707/720, DC8, and VC10 aircraft) .... and its field length/RWY requirement also reduced by approximatetly 1000 FT (depending on aircraft weight, RWY ailtitude, and ambient temperature etc). These modifications .... along with a slight incease in engine thrust .... also saw MGTOW for the CV880-22M increase from 184,500 LBS (original -22 model) to 193,000 LBS. Just a wee bit of technicxal blurb about the CV880 generally Mark C AKL/NZ
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Post by Mike Monce - HJG on Feb 4, 2014 21:01:14 GMT
OK Mark, had a few minutes and just did a "around the patch": test flight. Hmmm Send me your data and we can move our discussion off line. too bad the cockpit doesn't have a side/rear views Mike
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Post by aerofoto - HJG Admin on Feb 4, 2014 21:22:59 GMT
Unfortunately we could never locate any What I mean is .... There are some panel BMP side views "out there" for FS, but, they didn't meet our expectations/weren't of suitable enough quality for HJG's application. Previous promises of reference data from the USA (from aboard an aircraft that was, at that time, still stored in the desert) .... and the SWISS TRANSPORT MUSEUM also (a CV990 flightdeck in this particular case) .... havev never materialised, so, we're basically "stuck with what we've got". I've got a busy/full-on day today, but, will get that stuff to you ASAP Mark C AKL/NZ
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